Expansive Dreams

No I didn't play.

I was just too lazy to rewrite a post that I lost.
When I hit post reply it said I couldn't connect with the forums.
 
Looking at the save I think free Steel is ours for the taking.

My suggestions for the next set are:

As narri likes to say....rejiggle the tiles at Ironfish so we grow faster. :)
Tech Gunpowder before Engineering. This way Umung can spam muskets while we work towards Steel.
We can bump the slider to 50% with only slight losses.
Save the Prophet for another GA??? Or settle him in Delhi???
We don't have enough Taoism cities to make the shrine in Bombay and it would be a waste of time to spread it.

Well done Grandad!
Way to put Sury in his place!
 
We can get 2gpt from Moa.

Techs gunpowder>engine(possible trade)>chem>pop steel I think putting a turn or two into Engine might get a better deal, maybe not.

Cities are looking good, maybe get a buddhist monastery in Seoul are start pumping missionaries from there.

Civics switch back to OR, really wish we had Theo (JC wants Paper:(), oh well.

BTW, what's the roster like. I always get lost with that
 
Heres a roster for ya Cripp.

Grandad1982 ---> just played
Tynion ---> first time up...good luck!
Sirloin ---> in the hole
sturick
cripp7
narri

I like the tech plan cripp...i was thinking the same thing.

How about this though?
When we are teching Engineering check each turn to see when we can trade Engineering for Paper.
Pull that trigger and also trade Paper for Theo in the same turn.
Then all we have to do is tech Chem.
There is zero chance of losing Lib as Mao and JC would still have to learn Edu and Lib to beat us.
 
I didn't think our own research progress into a tech ever makes it cheaper for us to get it in a trade - are you sure about that? I mean, I know it works in reverse that if you are trying to sell a tech to the AI that they have progress into, they won't give you very much for it (which makes sense). But I see no value in teching partway through something you expect to gain in trade later.

I took a peek at the save and have some general comments but I'll hold off until grandad posts a full summary.
 
I could be wrong but I thought that when figuring trades that the AI used beakers remaining to compare the trades.

I used the strategy in a recent solo game and it seemed to work.
So I am like 95% sure it would work for us too.

My suggestion (if it works :D) would shave 5-6 turns off of Steel without jeopardizing the Lib race.

Agreed that it is best to wait for Grandads report before getting to involved in our strategy.
 
Arrghhh the Forum just lost my report post!!!!!!!!!

Ok faster summery.

PFT

Whip the forge in IF.

I drop Sci to 0% to start building some more gold.


1

Delhi is switched to a forge (meant to do this last turn).

We attack Banteay and lose 3 Cats. We capture and keep it.
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Pyong, Lib > Forge

Iron Fish, Forge > Xbow (want some garrison troops).

The GSci is born. I fire off a GAge and switch to Caste and Pacifism. We save 19 gold straight off.
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


I hire loads of Sci in Seoul. Next GP in 7 and Lib form 28 to 20.


2

Ulundi, Christ Missionary > Uni.

I upgrade a couple of swords.

Sci up to 30% and lib in 10.


3

uMgung, Market > Mace (1Turn!).

No, Market > Uni.


4

uMgung, Mace > Mace

Kwa, Market > Uni

Iron Fish, Xbow > Xbow

Banteay out of revolt and gold drops by 19 per turn!
I Start a Ikhandi.


5

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


I think not.

Spread Christ to Delhi.

Bula, Uni > Christ Monastary

Bombay, Courthouse > Forge


6

Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Ok then. Seems reasonable to me.

uMgung, Mace > Mace

Iron Fish, Xbow > Lbow (I notice at this point in my notes that I've been writing Xbox not Xbow).

I found Nongaoma as it can work the seafood and ruin some specs pretty sharpish.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Start a WB.


7

Seoul, HG > Uni
Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


Take and raze Sury's southern desert city.
Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


It only had 1 axe and 6 workers!

uMgung, Mace > Mace

Vij, Ikhanda > Forge


8

No.
Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg


Pop a GProth. Leave him in Seoul. He'll bulb Theo.

I fire 2 Sci in Seoul so that Ulundi will pop a definate GSci.

Sury won't give Eng for peace so I take what we can.
Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg



9

uMgung, Mace > Mace

Iron Fish, Lbow > Lbow


10

uMgung, Mace > Spy (place holder)

Bula, Monastary > Christ Missionary

Banteay, Ikhanda > Gran

Lib in 1 so I switch to Eng.


Info

Tech
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


So when we take out Sury we won't hit the dom limit.
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg




Run an artist in Nongoma so its borders pop before the WB is done.

I agree with Gunpowder before Eng.

Switching to OR would help us get the economy on the right road but it will also cost alot more in maintence.

I was building Maces on the premise that they will still be pretty handy against Sury.

Keep pumping the Unis so we can get Oxford in Seoul.

Spread Buddism over Christ IMO as the gold is pretty handy.
 
Tynion are you alive? We haven't heard from you in two weeks when you were debating whether to join. We're happy to have you if you'd like to play, but let us know one way or the other since you're up next.
 
I propose using the Prophet to bulb Theology, then build AP somewhere as it seems the AI doesn't want to do it. Take over Amsterdam with the current stack (maybe another city or two), then sue for peace again. We will have close to enough to get diplo victory (especially if we spread Christ to Delhi et al.). Meanwhile when Seoul pops its next GP, fire all the scientists to get Uni + Oxford ASAP (and grow). GS should first be Academy in Seoul, then settle any others in Seoul.

Don't trade techs for anything except a decent Engineering deal or lots of cash (which should be deficit-converted to beakers).
 
@cripp7
I usually do it in notepad but not this time! Doh!

@Sirloin/All
I PM'd Tynion the other day (well about a week ago) and he was still interested btu was busy in RL (had editing deadlines etc). However since he hasn't signed in I would suggest that we skip him for now and see if he want in later.

So Roster is...

Roster
Grandad1982
Tynion - Skipped awaitng sign up
Sirloin - Up now
sturick - On deck
cripp7
narri

As for the game I would consider the Theo bulb as well. Don't know about the Diplo win as Willem is now Mao's Vassel (don't think I included that in my report - happend in 1000AD) so Mao will be garrented some support (even if it is only minor support).

Inclined to agree with narri on not trading tech till Steel is within our grasp.

Next GP is from Ulundi so when it pops remember to fire some of the specs there as its in Burea so we get a commerce bonus.

I wouldn't go for Dam with our stack right now as we only have 3 (I think) cats. if thats what is wanted then switch uMgung to cat production.
 
You could always divert some espionage to Sury, and use the Spy to get a city revolt in Amsterdam (removes cultural defense for 1 turn). We almost have enough for it (maybe one or two turns with the espionage slider + 40-50% discount for stationary spy). And anyway we have 8 turns left of peace, so we have to spend that time anyway.
 
Got it. I'm pretty busy today but I will be able to play tomorrow evening. In the meantime I'll post my plan and we can discuss next steps.
 
Unfortunately I wasn't able to play yet. I had some friends visiting this weekend and they stayed longer than I expected. I'll definitely be able to play tonight; sorry for the delay.
 
Just finished my 10 turns. Save is attached, and I'll type up report tomorrow morning. It was a good set with a focus on massive research and well-managed diplo and trading. At the start of my set, when the golden age ended, we were 13 turns from Gunpowder and 8 turns from Engie, and 10 turns later we have both (without trading anyone Paper) with a bite out of Chemistry ... that means we can sling Steel in 7 turns!
 

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1050AD (Preturn):

The goal for my set is simple: maximize research. We're a few techs away from a Steel slingshot, and then we can work on our endgame, so as I mentioned previously, every decision that can get us to Steel faster should be undertaken.

Assessing the situation:
Military: We still have a great stack, although its getting low on cats. I could send it into Sury's land to try and take Amsterdam, but I think its just better to sit tight and wait for cannons/grenades. We have some awesomely promoted units and not enough siege so I don't want to lose any veterans. I move some fogbusters out to the southern area and just park the stack.

Diplo: Renegotiate Mao's Sugar deal to gain an additional 2gpt. I beg 110g from JC and succeed.

City Management. Most of our cities have low-priority builds so I focus on food/growth in most of our mature cities. My goal is to strike a good balance between growth and stagnating for specialists. Scientists are going to get us to Steel so I want to run as many as possible. Our new cities just need infrastructure so I do a lot of basic granary/forge builds. We have lots of trees to chop and lots of trees ... a good match.
University builds are all looking good. Seoul will be the sixth, and then I'll get Oxford going there.
We have a couple Stone wonders we could work on, but I hold off for now.

Religion. We're out of OR so spreading christianity isn't very important since our GP cities are already set. We should get buddism spread for the cash, but none of our new cities that have bud have monastaries and most of them have other infrastructure to build. I pick Pyongyang to get a monastery up so we can spread it to our production cities and then crank some missionaries. Also, we have a lot of different religions available across our various cities, so its important that we spread every possible religion to our two research powerhouses, Seoul and Ulundi, for the monastery bonuses. Those +10%s really add up. We can get Budda, Christ, Tao, Conf, and Islam, and we should shoot for all five in each.

Research. Switch to Gunpowder. I really hope I can get Engineering in trade somehow.

I use the GP to bulb Theo since that seems to be the team consensus. I usually don't bulb cheap techs (its only like a 3-4 turn) but its something we'll need eventually so whatever. I would have leaned towards either settling him, or perhaps even saving him for Amsterdam (christian shrine isn't build yet and it will be a TON of cash, even through once we get it the game will just about be over). Maybe someone will trade Paper+Theo for engineering eventually.

1060AD (1)
Golden Age ends. Trade Drama to Sury for 370g. Gunpowder in 13 turns. We have a lot of cash so lets turn up the big deficit spending .... how does 6 turns sound?

1070AD (2) We get a really nice random event in kwa. I pay the extra cash and we win the roll for the free scientist + health
Spoiler Insect Event :

civ_ed_5_insect.JPG


I adjust our espionage to even weights for JC, Mao, and Sury. Nothing towards WvO. By the way, we have a million workers. I try and get some workshops up. They aren't too great at the moment but they will be very strong in our lategame, but some cities do need the production boost. Some of our new indian cities are a bit food poor so I try and chain some farms their way.

1080AD (3) zzz
1090AD (4) zzz Really nothing to report here. I stagnate a few cities after they grow to run 100% scientists, and tweak some other specialists but this isn't really noteworthy. Its just a lot of economic micromanagement. If cities have nothing important to build, I'll set them to min production toward military units.
1100AD (5)
We discover gems near Nobam
Spoiler gems :

civ_ed_5_gems.JPG


1110AD (6) zzz Gunpowder coming next turn. I try and shop around Paper+Theo for Engineering but nobody will take it. I really don't want to tech Engy myself.
1120AD (7) We've discovered Gunpowder, but even better: JC just discovered GUILDS. Why is this so good? Well Guilds is the other pre-req for Gunpowder, which means I can trade for Engie now without giving away any Lib pre-reqs.
Spoiler Engie for Gunpowder :

civ_ed_5_trade.JPG


That means its full steam ahead on Chemistry!
1130AD (8) Great Scientist born. Heads to Seoul for an Academy.
1140AD (9) Seoul finishes its University, which is #6 so it starts on Oxford.
JC has some extra gpt so I trade him clam for 3.
1150AD (10) We ALMOST have that Dutch iron mine flipped; I was hoping to get it converted on my set, but its at 50/50% culture right now so it should flip when you hit enter. That will get the FP finished faster. I still haven't settled C2* yet because I don't want to drain the economy until we have Steel. Also I'm unsure about what tile to settle it on. We can either do the marked square, or 1W, or 1NW on the coast, and I want to see what the team wants to do.

Many of our mature cities would benefit from a few more points of population, but I want to see what effect that will have on our immediate tech. If we set the appropriate cities to grow, we'll have Chem in 9. Setting them to stagnate nets us 2 turns, so I stick with no growth, Chem in 7.

Roster
Grandad1982
Tynion - Skipped
Sirloin
sturick - Up now
cripp7 - On deck
narri
 
Everything looks great Sirloin!
Nice job spotting the GPowder trade...that came at just the right time.

Everything seems pretty well set up for me.
I think I will play til free Steel.
We have a GPerson coming from Seoul in 7 turns so seems like a natural stopping point.

Scientist is a toss up between bulbing most of PP or academying? Ulundi.
I think bulbing makes more sense given how close we are to victory.

Engineer will probably help build the Ironworks in Umung.

Lets try to avoid the prophet and artist as they aren't terribly helpful.
Although an artist could help on the warfront by culture bombing Amsterdam for example.

I got it for tomorrow and good job setting us up for success Sirloin!
 
Nice set.

Looks like I might need to start thinking about the next SG soon!

Once we have got free Steel I would consider slowing research right down and switching to gold to pay for our expanding empire and large army.

If the next GP is a GSci then bulb. If its a GEng then look at IW or AP.
 
Free Steel FTW!

Preturn

Lets look around the cities.
Sirloin did a fine job of MM last turn so everything should be in order.
But I like to do it to be familiar for my set nonetheless.

As I figured, all is well.
I did adjust the tiles at Ironfish to promote growth firing two miners and turned them into fisherman.

(1) 1160 AD

Umung treb>musket
Pyong buddist mish>courthouse (11 maintenance here!)

Right on queue we have gained control of WvO's iron tile. :)

I don't think we need to bother with c2 until our economy is stable enough to allow it.
ie. until we have taken Amsterdam!

I have to tweak science down to 20% temporarily but it doesn't affect Chem in any way.

(2) 1170 AD

Kwa monastery>lighthouse
Wonsan mace>musket

Buddhism is spread to Kwa.

I try to trade Edu for Guilds and Music but no go.
It would be nice to be able to build culture after we take Surys cities.

(3) 1180 AD

Umung musket>musket

(4) 1190 AD

Nomamba treb>wealth
Bulwalyo mace>musket

The small boost from wealth allows us to be +1gpt at 30%.

(5) 1200 AD

Umung musket>musket
Kwa lighthouse>AP (28 turns)
Ironfish treb>musket

(6) 1210 AD

Ulundi cata>courthouse

An event (missed the screenshot) destroys the library and market in Nomamba.
I switch from wealth to rebuild them.

I kinda feel like we have a big enough army to take a big chunk out of Sury.
Its gonna take a while for the cannons to reach the front lines anyways.
Just a discussion point for the next set...thats all.

(7) 1220 AD

Chemistry is in and now we can finally grab Lib!

Umung musket>mace

Our GP roll produces a scientist...I assume he will bulb PP but I won't use him during my set.

(8) 1230 AD

Lib finishes and grants us free Steel.
It wasn't even close...good job team :goodjob:

Wrapup

Very short, boring, but fruitful set.
Its not often that you get three techs in 8 turns!
Our economy should get a nice boost with the Forbidden Palace and a pair of courthouses arriving in the next few turns.

I apologize for the lack of pictures...but infra sets don't make for the most exciting pictures.

As I think Sirloin mentioned...we have alot of workers.

Here are the decisions I think we need to make.
1)Should the scientist bulb PP?
2)What should our tech path be?
3)Should we attack with our stack now and bring the cannons in as reinforcements?

Roster
Grandad1982
Tynion
Sirloin
sturick - just played
cripp7 - up next
narri - waiting in the wings
 

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