I really like the earth node's increasing mineral/gems etc spawning from my mines, maybe a same thing for water nodes could be useful in new fishing/clam/crab etc nodes appearing, and maybe something else for luxuries/foods.
Extra bonuses to Mana Nodes
- Thread starter Charybdis
- Start date
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
Ever notice how the nodes that grant those bonuses are the ones with the crappiest spells?
Yeah. Not a coincidence.
Yeah. Not a coincidence.
Life increases health, allows you to sanctify hell terrain/ruins. Pretty good spell/bonus.
Enchantment increases happiness, enchanted blade is great for all melee, and fiery arrows is an extra bonus for defense.
I'll agree mind isn't too amazing for me (at least havn't really worked them into my strats yet).
Spirit increase GP production, also gives you the courage to kick fearing monsters (early acheron rush for example), and spirit III is always fun to have going.
Water 1 is great, but water 2 is sort of 'meh'. Especially a rank 2 spell. Is why I think the fishy bonus could be of great use to it.
Enchantment increases happiness, enchanted blade is great for all melee, and fiery arrows is an extra bonus for defense.
I'll agree mind isn't too amazing for me (at least havn't really worked them into my strats yet).
Spirit increase GP production, also gives you the courage to kick fearing monsters (early acheron rush for example), and spirit III is always fun to have going.
Water 1 is great, but water 2 is sort of 'meh'. Especially a rank 2 spell. Is why I think the fishy bonus could be of great use to it.
xienwolf
Deity
Well currently Earth affects your chances to find ALL resources. It just happens to be the case that only the metals can actually have a chance to be found.
To allow some other mana to give a chance of finding some other resource, you would have to:
I guess that is about all I can think of right now that would be needed. But the main issue is of course the first of the two.
To allow some other mana to give a chance of finding some other resource, you would have to:
- Re-write how resources are discovered to have multiple types of discovery chance
- Create an improvement which has a chance to discover resources which can be built in locations where ther IS no resource yet
I guess that is about all I can think of right now that would be needed. But the main issue is of course the first of the two.
Aaah, thats such a shame.
Perhaps just the second of the two (like a fishing path or something, I dunno) to build a 'resource' on coast and/or ocean to allow natural discovery from it.
Currently some mana nodes(life, enchantment, earth, etc) have extra benefits while some(water, air, fire, etc) do not have.
I think it would nice if all mana node can have some sort of "side effect". For example water node can serve as a source of fresh water(like an oasis), fire mana can randomly cause smoke and fire in surrounding tiles, nature node can increase the chance of forest spreading, etc. - Just a few rough ideas
I think it would nice if all mana node can have some sort of "side effect". For example water node can serve as a source of fresh water(like an oasis), fire mana can randomly cause smoke and fire in surrounding tiles, nature node can increase the chance of forest spreading, etc. - Just a few rough ideas
Mind 2 gives you the buildng Inspiration as long as the casters stays in the city, which gives you 4
. That's the same as a Alchemist lab for free or 2/3 of a super specialist. At the beginning of the game that's fun, later it can be funny if you have all the other buildings (library etc.). Furthermore it gives your mages, while you're at peace something to do. Also Domination on level 3 is really nice.But others like Enchantment are surely more valuable.
xienwolf
Deity
I'd actually not mind seeing a few of the nodes simply improve the Tile Yields instead of needing to have a far ranging change on the Empire/Area. Then when you happen to settle a city with Mana in the fat cross you can choose one of the Tile Yield Mana types to build so that the spot is somewhat useful still for working.
BeefontheBone
Windbag of the sea
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 2,018
Keep throwing ideas out there - I'm planning out ways to make mana nodes a more dynamic and exciting element of the game for a modcomp; I intend to have 4 'stages' in a node's life cycle - immature newly built nodes, an intermediate stage and mature nodes with their largest benefit, plus 'leaking' nodes which won't provide mana (temporarily) until they grow back to immature status - you'll be able to pillage nodes down to leaking one stage at a time as you would towns down to cottages. The second phase once the mechanics are in place will be to add a number of events and other interactions which depend on the node's status - including hopefully a global event which can trigger if there are a number of leaking nodes in the world, flares (though Kael beat me to those), leaks (duh) and so on.
The discover chance and the like are actually tied to the resource rather than the node itself, but things like spreading irrigation (I suspect it'll only be available once the tech which enables it is discovered, though I might try giving mature water nodes <bFreshWater>1</bFreshWater> which should work without the tech IIRC) and simple tile yields dependent on type and maturity (earth provides hammers, nature/life/sun food, some of the others commerce, etc etc - maybe even negative food from Death and/or Entropy nodes) will be straightforward.
The discover chance and the like are actually tied to the resource rather than the node itself, but things like spreading irrigation (I suspect it'll only be available once the tech which enables it is discovered, though I might try giving mature water nodes <bFreshWater>1</bFreshWater> which should work without the tech IIRC) and simple tile yields dependent on type and maturity (earth provides hammers, nature/life/sun food, some of the others commerce, etc etc - maybe even negative food from Death and/or Entropy nodes) will be straightforward.
I think Death and Body also give passive bonuses (they affect unit heal rates I think).
Any expansion on the node mechanics would be great - I think they are one of the most interesting features in the mod - I like how you can mix and match nodes to get different benefits.
I was thinking nodes would go really well with the corp mechanic to have schools of magic - as the main mod already has corps, this would probably be best as a modmod.
@Beefonthebone, if you're making a modmod you might be interested - here's a sketch of the idea:
the 1st civ to research a magic tech founds a school of magic (Necromancy = Dark Mages Guild, Divination = High Mages Guild, Transmutation = Alchemists Guild, Elementalism = Elementalists Guild) - other civs can build a branch of the school by building a magic tower (e.g. Tower of the Elements creates a branch of the Elementalists Guild) - spellcasters can found more branches (like execs)
each guild consumes different resources and gives different benefits:
High Mages Guild - represents the altruistic wizards who use their magic to help others
Consumes Reagents, Mind, Law, Life, Spirit, Sun, Metamagic - gives culture boost (the wizards help people and this makes the city a nicer place to live in and draws in people from the surrounding area) - Guild is disabled in Evil civs
Special bonus: mage guilds give -25% war weariness for cities with this guild
Dark Mages Guild - represents wicked mages who use their powers for selfish reasons - consumes Reagents, Mind, Entropy, Death, Shadow, Chaos, Metmagic - gives science boost (the wizards use dark rituals to gain forbidden knowledge from demons etc) - Guild is disabled in Good Civs
Special Bonus - mage guilds give -33% cost on pop rushing for cities with this guild
Alchemists Guild - represents the potion and beaker type of mage - consumes Reagents, Nature, Enchantment, Body, Earth, Entropy, Metamagic - gives commerce boost (the wizards make lots of things that can be traded)
Special bonus - mage guilds give +1 happy for copper, iron, mithril, gold for cities with this guild
Elementalists Guild - represents the masters of the elements - consumes Reagents, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Nature, Metamagic - gives production bonus (the wizards use elemental forces to help build things)
Special bonus: Mage guilds give -33% gold rush costs for cities with this guild
This is just an outline - I'm sure it can be improved - but I think you get the idea
Any expansion on the node mechanics would be great - I think they are one of the most interesting features in the mod - I like how you can mix and match nodes to get different benefits.
I was thinking nodes would go really well with the corp mechanic to have schools of magic - as the main mod already has corps, this would probably be best as a modmod.
@Beefonthebone, if you're making a modmod you might be interested - here's a sketch of the idea:
the 1st civ to research a magic tech founds a school of magic (Necromancy = Dark Mages Guild, Divination = High Mages Guild, Transmutation = Alchemists Guild, Elementalism = Elementalists Guild) - other civs can build a branch of the school by building a magic tower (e.g. Tower of the Elements creates a branch of the Elementalists Guild) - spellcasters can found more branches (like execs)
each guild consumes different resources and gives different benefits:
High Mages Guild - represents the altruistic wizards who use their magic to help others
Consumes Reagents, Mind, Law, Life, Spirit, Sun, Metamagic - gives culture boost (the wizards help people and this makes the city a nicer place to live in and draws in people from the surrounding area) - Guild is disabled in Evil civs
Special bonus: mage guilds give -25% war weariness for cities with this guild
Dark Mages Guild - represents wicked mages who use their powers for selfish reasons - consumes Reagents, Mind, Entropy, Death, Shadow, Chaos, Metmagic - gives science boost (the wizards use dark rituals to gain forbidden knowledge from demons etc) - Guild is disabled in Good Civs
Special Bonus - mage guilds give -33% cost on pop rushing for cities with this guild
Alchemists Guild - represents the potion and beaker type of mage - consumes Reagents, Nature, Enchantment, Body, Earth, Entropy, Metamagic - gives commerce boost (the wizards make lots of things that can be traded)
Special bonus - mage guilds give +1 happy for copper, iron, mithril, gold for cities with this guild
Elementalists Guild - represents the masters of the elements - consumes Reagents, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Nature, Metamagic - gives production bonus (the wizards use elemental forces to help build things)
Special bonus: Mage guilds give -33% gold rush costs for cities with this guild
This is just an outline - I'm sure it can be improved - but I think you get the idea
frenzyslave
Warlord
Remember also that some mana have diplomacy effects too for those having it, such as entropy.
The guilds sound interesting... However 5 different mana and reagents may be a bit overcostly. The AI may also have a problem with it.
The guilds sound interesting... However 5 different mana and reagents may be a bit overcostly. The AI may also have a problem with it.
Ecofarm
Deity
Mind the best tier 3 spell, IMHO. Dominating heroes (Hemah), national units (crossbows and paladins), vampires (gifting vampiric to your civ) and arcane units with mana types you don't have is just too awesome. I don't use it much, it is so over powered.
Mind 2 makes idle mages useful. Any city can use a mage with some attack, a buff and inspiration as part of minimum defense. By casting inspiration, the mage pays his unit cost.
Mind 1, while not as absurd as in .30, is still very effective. A single adept can prevent being overrun by raging barbarians for a few turns and 3 or 4 adepts (your main army or capital defense) can charm all the livings in a big stack. This is not only useful on defense, but on offense while advancing on enemy cities (to prevent counter attack by assassins and flanking horses).
Best mana, IMHO. 3% tech is nice.
After mind comes one of: sun3, earth3, tsunami [depending on map] or mael (for damage), then haste (if utility necessities allow)... then utilities as luxuries. I often need life to sanctify or ressurect, spirit for courage or water for spring before I can get body for haste. I almost forgot: blur + shadowwalk + tier 3 HN summon! Thus,
1. mind
2. air (or another damage mana)
3. shadow (shadowwalk)
4. body
Then, if needed (and when they are needed, they are really needed)
6. life
7. spirit
8. water
Then,
9. nature (treetop is nice and poisoned blade - I almost always go recon line for fast armies)
...
You can see why I like Balseraph and Svalt.
---
All of the mana types should have cool affects/bonuses, but the nodes should have more effects also. A recent sanctify by a life node "flare" was a pleasant surprise. Considering that building a life node generally entails an adept or 2 on perm hell-firefighter duty, why noy have the node protect surrounding tiles from hell and flare to a range of 5 tiles (instead of the current 2?) more often? Do fire nodes cause the azur barbarians to appear?
Mind 2 makes idle mages useful. Any city can use a mage with some attack, a buff and inspiration as part of minimum defense. By casting inspiration, the mage pays his unit cost.
Mind 1, while not as absurd as in .30, is still very effective. A single adept can prevent being overrun by raging barbarians for a few turns and 3 or 4 adepts (your main army or capital defense) can charm all the livings in a big stack. This is not only useful on defense, but on offense while advancing on enemy cities (to prevent counter attack by assassins and flanking horses).
Best mana, IMHO. 3% tech is nice.
After mind comes one of: sun3, earth3, tsunami [depending on map] or mael (for damage), then haste (if utility necessities allow)... then utilities as luxuries. I often need life to sanctify or ressurect, spirit for courage or water for spring before I can get body for haste. I almost forgot: blur + shadowwalk + tier 3 HN summon! Thus,
1. mind
2. air (or another damage mana)
3. shadow (shadowwalk)
4. body
Then, if needed (and when they are needed, they are really needed)
6. life
7. spirit
8. water
Then,
9. nature (treetop is nice and poisoned blade - I almost always go recon line for fast armies)
...
You can see why I like Balseraph and Svalt.
---
All of the mana types should have cool affects/bonuses, but the nodes should have more effects also. A recent sanctify by a life node "flare" was a pleasant surprise. Considering that building a life node generally entails an adept or 2 on perm hell-firefighter duty, why noy have the node protect surrounding tiles from hell and flare to a range of 5 tiles (instead of the current 2?) more often? Do fire nodes cause the azur barbarians to appear?
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