Extra/Conditional Unique Units

Actually, we can even implement both
Conditional UUs buildable in your cities (only in those specific areas), and the same units as conditional mercenaries in your capital - of course only after a few turns have passed and those cities started to assimilate
 
Also, Janissaries would work great this way.
Right now they can be drafted from the same areas where they would appear as conditional UUs.
I never saw janissaries in my games (when I wasn't playing the ottomans), now the AI would surely build them in those cities.
 
You cannot have province based UU without serious C++ or ugly hack like Topkapi (where you build a unit, but as soon as it is finished, the unit is killed and replaced by another one).

We should do the Mercenary mechanics. We can change the Ottoman UP, so that they get Janissaries (I don't think they have this unit right now).
 
Actually I thought all along that we base it on the Topkapi mechanics
I had no idea it was using an ugly hack like this, but I'm not against ugly hacks anyway ;)
Does it have a real disadvantage besides being ugly?
 
Michael Vick I really like your ideas, and I really hope that they are included in the game soon! :)

And yes about Janissaries, you could have it so that if the Ottomans capture the Balkans, then they can build the Janissary unit.
 
Actually I thought all along that we base it on the Topkapi mechanics
I had no idea it was using an ugly hack like this, but I'm not against ugly hacks anyway ;)
Does it have a real disadvantage besides being ugly?

In the city screen, you never see that you are building a Drujina. You select a Heavy Lancer, you see progress for a Heavy Lancer and in the end you get a Drujina. I am not even sure if they properly account for the experience form Barracks and such (I hope it does).
 
In the city screen, you never see that you are building a Drujina. You select a Heavy Lancer, you see progress for a Heavy Lancer and in the end you get a Drujina. I am not even sure if they properly account for the experience form Barracks and such (I hope it does).

When you build the vassal UU with Topkapi palace, it works normally. (So you'll get XP etc.)
 
Good news for the XP, but does it show in the city screen that you are building a different thing?

Unfortunately not. When you have France as vassal and you build a musketman, you'll get the button of the musketman. It looks like you build the musketman, but when the unit is finished, it is a musketeer. It works perfectly gameplay-wise. It's only an aesthetic issue.
 
The Norse húskarl was, like the Byzantine Varangian Guard, an elite corps of bodyguards hired by the king for protection, but would also be deployed as a military battalion if necessary. The were the strongest men the king could hire, and those employed by Cnut were said to wield two-handed Danish axes capable of cutting a man in half at the torso through mail. We could allow the Danes to build them if they hold England. On the other hand, since huskarlar were employed until the end of the 13th century (well after the English spawn), we could treat them as hirdmen and allow them to be built as long as the Norse hold Norway. I actually found art for this one here and here. The first looks better, but both were treated as swordsmen and don't wield the mighty two-handed Danish axe. These would make great sword/longsword replacements with defensive bonuses.

As for the others I mentioned in the prior thread, embryodead actually made a Varangian Guard unit for SoI (axeman, bottom left). I'd be happy with giving Justinian the chance to build regular Berserkers with boosted bonuses, but these units look great.

I've looked around for the last hour looking for something suitable for the Hakkapeliitta, but nothing really works (in a perfect world, we'd have a light cavalry fire pistols for the first strike then swing its saber for its attack). The first (British) cavalry posted here at least looks similar to the hakkapell image on the wikipedia with a similar uniform and tricorn hat, however, the Brit cavalry is wielding a rifle, which is out of character. Further down the Finnish version of the wiki page are some reenactors wearing crested helms, so I'm not sure aesthetics are as important as locating a pistol or sabre cavalry in general period-appropriate garb. So far I'm stuck on finding one, though (too bad the Sipahi from Civ 3 wasn't carried over - a good artist could reskin that quickly, and it's animation would work perfectly). I'll keep searching for one that could work, but the forum search function here is less than useful. :rolleyes:

(Another note for the Hakkapliita - Finland should receive a horse resource if this feature is implemented - I suggest placing it pretty far east to encourage Sweden to truly control Finland. The reason the Hakkapell was so fast is because it was a physically small animal - pony sized - and could only be used as light cavalry as it couldn't support heavier armaments; the Swedes adapted their tactics to their resources. Vasa and his officers rode taller horses imported from the continent, but the cavalry ranks had to use native Finnish horses, at least until they could upgrade to bigger horses captured in battle.)
 
Unfortunately not. When you have France as vassal and you build a musketman, you'll get the button of the musketman. It looks like you build the musketman, but when the unit is finished, it is a musketeer. It works perfectly gameplay-wise. It's only an aesthetic issue.

If we add a chance here, so that there is say 80% percent that you will get your vassal's UU (or your conditional UU in this case), than it won't even be an aesthetic issue
You start building the normal unit, and if you are lucky and get your vassal's UU or your conditional UU instead then you are happy :)
 
You cannot have province based UU without serious C++ or ugly hack like Topkapi (where you build a unit, but as soon as it is finished, the unit is killed and replaced by another one).

I think it could be done without ugly hacks ;)

if you want to replace a unit in the city build list with another you just have to make the new unit an upgrade for the old one. And then make sure that the upgrade is only buildable under certain conditions.

try this:
- add a new Tag in the UnitInfos.xml for the required province (or province list)
- alter the code in CvPlot::canTrain to add a check for the province
- add the UU to the UnitClassUpgrade List in the UnitInfos.xml of the unit it shall replace.

make sure to give each UU a own UnitClass and not only a new UnitType. This way we can disable this unit for certain civs if we want and it doesn't conflict with regular UUs.
 
I think it could be done without ugly hacks ;)

if you want to replace a unit in the city build list with another you just have to make the new unit an upgrade for the old one. And then make sure that the upgrade is only buildable under certain conditions.

try this:
- add a new Tag in the UnitInfos.xml for the required province (or province list)
- alter the code in CvPlot::canTrain to add a check for the province
- add the UU to the UnitClassUpgrade List in the UnitInfos.xml of the unit it shall replace.

make sure to give each UU a own UnitClass and not only a new UnitType. This way we can disable this unit for certain civs if we want and it doesn't conflict with regular UUs.

Also add information about the required provinces in the Civilopedia screen and you will also end up with a tech three with way too many units per tech. This can severely mess AI's understanding of the tech tree, so we need to let the AI know that those units should be valued differently ....

That is a huge amount of code.

The Mercenaries solution is so much better, if you have a city in the province then you can hire a specific unit.
 
Also add information about the required provinces in the Civilopedia screen and you will also end up with a tech three with way too many units per tech. This can severely mess AI's understanding of the tech tree, so we need to let the AI know that those units should be valued differently ....

That is a huge amount of code.

The Mercenaries solution is so much better, if you have a city in the province then you can hire a specific unit.

I see no problem with the techtree. You code the additional tag once and then you have a proper documentation forever. If you want to document the mercenaries you have to change the text manually everytime you change the units. or you have no docmentation at all but then players will complain sooner or later for sure.

AI could be told to ignore all units that use this new tag completly for technology evaluation.

I think it wouldn't require that much more work. it's more a matter of flavor.
 
I see no problem with the techtree. You code the additional tag once and then you have a proper documentation forever. If you want to document the mercenaries you have to change the text manually everytime you change the units. or you have no docmentation at all but then players will complain sooner or later for sure.

AI could be told to ignore all units that use this new tag completly for technology evaluation.

I think it wouldn't require that much more work. it's more a matter of flavor.
You can always do it yourself... :D
 
The Mercenaries solution is so much better, if you have a city in the province then you can hire a specific unit.

I also prefer this solution. In SoI, it works this way.
 
I'm with Caliom
SoI uses them as mercenaries, because that was easier to implement

But again, what's wrong with using the Topkapi mechanics with a percentage (like I suggested in my previous post)?
Noone said anything against that...
 
You can always do it yourself... :D

I'd love to do it myself :). I hate to make suggestions i cant prove feasible myself. But at the moment i cant. I should spend my time on other things :(.
And i didnt manage to compile the dll on my own yet :cry:

So all my sugestions stay sugestions.
 
I can understand that ;)

I stand with 3Miro's opinion. It's more about hiring natives than training them IMO.
And a random chance a-la Topkapi is too unreliable to be an interesting enough mechanic, maybe.
 
I'm with Caliom
SoI uses them as mercenaries, because that was easier to implement

But again, what's wrong with using the Topkapi mechanics with a percentage (like I suggested in my previous post)?
Noone said anything against that...

Building one unit and then getting another is a bit confusing. Mercs are just straight forward.
 
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