Extra gold? What extra gold?

[Brain]

Newbie question once more.

The Civilopedia says that democracy gives extra gold and production and everybody here seems to agree. However, I don't see any difference at all from republic. What exactly is this bonus that everyone is talking about?

Here are two screenshots of my capital, before and after the revolution.

 

[Tomoyo]

Extra gold and production comes from the decrease in corruption. The production boost is also that your workers work 150% as fast. Republic and Democracy both have the commerce bonus.

 

[Brain]

But the corruption is only marginally lower. I still have many cities that produce only one shield after corruption, no matter how many shields there are before corruption. And my whole continent is almost fully worked, so worker efficiency is not really that important.

Maybe the worker efficiency will come handy when I start building railroads, but so far I feel that the anarchy wasn't worth the minuscule gold/shield advantage.

 

[Tomoyo]

What you said is exactly why I don't like Democracy. Some people don't build enough workers and need the 150% worker rate, and I suppose the corruption decrease does make a slight difference. I usually measure the difference in gold, and it usually turns out to be about 5% of my gold.

 

[ainwood]

Newbie question once more.

The Civilopedia says that democracy gives extra gold and production and everybody here seems to agree. However, I don't see any difference at all from republic. What exactly is this bonus that everyone is talking about?

Here are two screenshots of my capital, before and after the revolution.

Look at the domsetic advisor screen, and note the difference in overall income, not just for one (corrupt) city.

 

[Wosret]

well, republic is not so good in conquests, humm, no so good if you want to couple any militaristic problem...that's because the unit suppot has been increased for two, and now there are free units for town/city/metro...
In democracy, desides all posted here, the support is just one gold, this make a huge diference as well

 

[Turner]

That really depends on your situation. If you have enough large cities, you can actually make out better than democracy because total unit support will be lower than in democracy. Even with the 2g per unit. Someone figured it out once, and there is a threshold for this. 1 for towns, 2 for cities, and 4 for metro's. Get enough metros, and have a small enough (yet hopefully technologically superior) army, and the unit support with not be as bad as demo, which gets no free units with cities of any size.

Another thing to keep in mind is that WW in Rep is not as bad as it is in Demo. With Universal Sufferage and Police stations in all cities, and keeping the losses to a minimum, WW will be a lot lower. And Rep is a lot more forgiving for losing units and cities than Demo is.

 

[ybbor]

what's not being said enough here (i saw only one remark in passing) was that both republic and democracy give a commernce bonus. so the squares youy have that are now producing 2 gold would only be producing one under any government besides republic and democracy

 

[bonscott]

But the corruption is only marginally lower. I still have many cities that produce only one shield after corruption, no matter how many shields there are before corruption. And my whole continent is almost fully worked, so worker efficiency is not really that important.

Maybe the worker efficiency will come handy when I start building railroads, but so far I feel that the anarchy wasn't worth the minuscule gold/shield advantage.

If you are really that big and have a large army then you should consider going to Communism instead of Demo. Most times I make *more* money in Commie then Demo simply because corruption is a lot lower, Police HQ, and the unit support for Commie us *huge*. No WW either if you get dragged into a war.

 

[Brain]

I am really large (34 cities on a small map), but since I'm alone on my continent and other civs haven't discovered magnetism yet (to send ships overseas) there is no need for me to have a military. My entire military consists of four knights and an army of immortals, plus a couple of galleys floating around.

I want to win this game by space ship, so I need to focus on gold and science output.

 

[bonscott]

Even with a small military, once you get over the OCN then corruption will really start to kill you in Demo and Rep. This is where Commie has the advantage in large empires. I'd say 34 cities on a small map is well above OCN for corruption.

FYI you can try out different governments and see what they do for you. Make sure you have a save for the turn just before anarchy ends. Then choose Demo and see what it does. Then reload that save and choose Commie and see what it does. At worst Commie gets me a tech one turn slower while still making as much money. The key with Commie is it really makes those outlying cities productive. Get a courthouse, police station in them and then pile in the library, university and so on and you'll get your tech as high as Demo most games. In Demo those cities are just useless, might as well not even have 'em.

Size does matter and after a certain size Demo no longer becomes and option.

 

[Gogf]

That really depends on your situation. If you have enough large cities, you can actually make out better than democracy because total unit support will be lower than in democracy. Even with the 2g per unit. Someone figured it out once, and there is a threshold for this. 1 for towns, 2 for cities, and 4 for metro's. Get enough metros, and have a small enough (yet hopefully technologically superior) army, and the unit support with not be as bad as demo, which gets no free units with cities of any size.

Another thing to keep in mind is that WW in Rep is not as bad as it is in Demo. With Universal Sufferage and Police stations in all cities, and keeping the losses to a minimum, WW will be a lot lower. And Rep is a lot more forgiving for losing units and cities than Demo is.

Right. IMO Republic is better than democracy in C3C, because if you get sanitation and hospitals first, you can have free unit support by the time you get arty, which can be quite helpful (it leaves you with gold to rush things...).

 

[SJ Frank]

Even with a small military, once you get over the OCN then corruption will really start to kill you in Demo and Rep.

Being over the OCN does not kill Demo and Rep. It doesn't matter how many cities you are over the OCN, your core cities will remain as productive as before. It is the outer cities that will suffer because of the the high city count.

The way that OCN-based corruption works: every city is given a rank, based on its distance from the capital; corruption is then calculated according to the rank -- the lower the rank, the less corruption. Corruption is 0% for rank 0 (the capital itself), and 50% for a city which has rank=OCN. If you add a new city to your civ, it will increase the rank of every city that is futher than it from the capital, so it will increase the corruption in those cities. However, it will have absolutly no effect on the cities that are closer to the capital.

The rule to remember is, in Democracy, Republic and Monarchy, once you have a lot of cities, any new cities that you get won't help you much, but it won't hurt you either. Under Communism, before C3C, every new city that you get will probably hurt you, because the OCN for Comm was much lower. In C3C, you can pretty safely add cities in Communism until you're close to the domination limit.

 

[ainwood]

Even with a small military, once you get over the OCN then corruption will really start to kill you in Demo and Rep. This is where Commie has the advantage in large empires. I'd say 34 cities on a small map is well above OCN for corruption.
.

Under republic and Democracy, the OCN is only important for determining which cities will get worse corruption - cities with a rank (from the capital) less than the OCN have lower corruption. The core cities don't increase in corruption just because the empire gets bigger.

Actually, more cities in republic (especially) is great, as it allows more 'free' units, so you can support a larger army.

 

[Brain]

Actually, more cities in republic (especially) is great, as it allows more 'free' units, so you can support a larger army.

Not in vanilla Civ3, which I'm playing.