ExtraModMod continued

[Qgqqqqq]

I believe tundra cannot be irrigated, either.

 

[DuskTreader]

Thank you for clarifying! One more question:

Why does a farm on rice only give a +1 food bonus while farms on wheat and corn give +2? Especially given that IRL rice growing regions support huge populations.

 

[Ophion]

That tile is not actually irrigated. Check the tooltip on the rice. I think the "Irrigated +1F" in the build tooltip is always there.


I found some some BBAI code that apparently intends to fix blockades not working and may be causing this. (There is a separate underlying issue that I can't find, though.) I will disable that code for the next release; phantom blockades like this are far more annoying. Unfortunately, there is no real way to fix this in-game, since the blockade stuff is not exposed to python.


You mean does not have a summoning duration, right? It is documented in the Graveyard pedia entry . I made a note to also put it into the spell tooltip.


All documentation I wrote (apart from comments in the code) is in the doc/ folder.


<bFemale>1</bFemale> makes the leader female, otherwise he's male. <iAttitudeFromFemales> etc. are pretty self-explanatory, right? They're only used for Falamar (likes and is liked by women) and Os-Gabella (dislikes men). <bFemale> is not used for anything else.

<iWonderConstructRand>: Larger values make the leader more likely to build wonders with longer duration.

<iAttitudeBadBonus>: Multiplier for how much the leader dislikes you for using bonuses with <BadAttitude>, like death mana. 0 means they don't care. This is displayed in-game as something like "-X: you use death mana" in the leader tooltip.

<SomniumAggressiveness>: Makes the leader more aggressive when playing somnium, and also dumber and have a worse memory. I haven't check exactly what that means. Should be between 0 and 100.


These were all removed by Tholal (see commit), because they were unused. I did a spot check and they seem to be unused in vanilla FfH, too.
My guess is they were either the result of an unfinished and abandoned merge, or they were superseded and disabled at some point, without removing them (perhaps because the AI didn't need that kind of hardcoding anymore).

By the way, if you have some basic knowledge of programming, you can check what tags do yourself relatively easily. ALl the code of the mod is here: https://notabug.org/lfgr/more-naval-ai. You can download a zip of the whole thing, and using "Find in Files" in your favorite editor usually gives you all locations a tag is used (search without the starting "b" or "i", like "AttitudeBadBonus").

Thank you so much for clarifying! This helps alot

Yes I meant does NOT have summoning duration, my bad for the typo.

Again, thanks for the mod mod, it really make FFH2 even more amazing than it already was, and the performance is incredible

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Thank you for clarifying! One more question:

View attachment 690440

Why does a farm on rice only give a +1 food bonus while farms on wheat and corn give +2? Especially given that IRL rice growing regions support huge populations.

Not sure, but this is the yield in the base game, better to ask in the main forums.

 

[Ophion]

@lfgr I just took a Frozen Flame item/wonder from another AI player. I am at peace with them, but still it would seem that I should not be able to just pick up an item of theirs. It was not even dropped as an item, it was in their city as a wonder, and I was able to pick it up.
Also, in the civilopedia it is described in the wonder part, but no requirements are named to be able to build it. Is this supposed to be (as in, is it created as result of an event?), or should there be requirements? Haven't played ExtraModMod with Illians yet, and it seems to be Illian related so Im not sure.

 

[Ophion]

@lfgr Unrelated to the above, I just got this alert:

My build version is 3.9.1.0

 

[lfgr]

Thank you for clarifying! One more question:

View attachment 690440

Why does a farm on rice only give a +1 food bonus while farms on wheat and corn give +2? Especially given that IRL rice growing regions support huge populations.

As Q said, that is from vanilla. No idea why it's like this. Maybe simply for variety.

@lfgr I just took a Frozen Flame item/wonder from another AI player. I am at peace with them, but still it would seem that I should not be able to just pick up an item of theirs. It was not even dropped as an item, it was in their city as a wonder, and I was able to pick it up.
Also, in the civilopedia it is described in the wonder part, but no requirements are named to be able to build it. Is this supposed to be (as in, is it created as result of an event?), or should there be requirements? Haven't played ExtraModMod with Illians yet, and it seems to be Illian related so Im not sure.

That's a bug, thanks for reporting. It's an event-related building/item. I should note that in the pedia.
EDIT: I can't reproduce this. Do you have a savegame?

 

[FireBlaze]

I was bored and rolling starts and noticed that I started with a freak on classical start as the Elohim. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Petition to add the additional start eras (or similar) from EitB to Extramodmod - Classical/Medieval are too massive increments.

 

[FireBlaze]

I think my group would get a good bit out of an "accelerated ancient" sort of start too (not being too familiar with the EitB ones and mostly presuming), since those extra ~30 basically dead and/or RNG turns can feel like eons on a PbEM

 

[Qgqqqqq]

On Realms Beyond, recent games have started with every civ having all the first row techs, a choice of a tech that flows from their normal starting tech (e.g. Calendar/AH if they start with Agriculture), and a worker. Not something you can bake in easily tho.

 

[FireBlaze]

Have you considered having law mana give some sort of passive bonus to the revolution mechanics now that the reworks been implemented? was thinking it could be an interesting way to differentiate its passive bonus from force, though revolution being optional presumably limits the design space options with it since having the mechanic off could just leave law weaker than it was before. At least it sounds thematic

 

[FireBlaze]

Is the Pillar of Chains not stacking with Governor's Manor intended? I vaguely recall this working in at least other modmods, but I could be way off and it's only worked in my dreams lol

 

[FireBlaze]

Any recent consideration on changing the hammer cost of Guild of Hammers upward or changing the Eyes and Ears network affect? Both incredibly strong to gamewarping wonders.

e. saw a suggestion to require x forges to build Guild of Hammers, which would at least weaken one of its greatest strengths (being able to beeline engineering and ignore smelting for forges)

e2. with the "Better Expansion AI" setting, there should probably be a Khazad-unique toggle for them to balance their gold with that logic, since they did expand very well but were on empty vaults the whole time.

e3. also also also a unit/spell that can break polar ice when, they're messing with my pretty BFCs

e4. Lizardmen Beastmasters dont seem to get the Warrens double production bonus. Iirc they usually work for national limited units that are organic so I think it's an oversight

e5. Is there a way to kill treasure chests if its a nations last unit? Love the "Require Total Kills" setting but it often ends up with treasure chest ghosts speaking to you from the other side

e6. Ok so I kind of want an animal selling eco to be semi-viable, but the maint costs for just getting them to market often completely eat into your earnings or even make you negative. What if there was an irreversable "mark for sale" skill that made the animal unable to fight or be settled as a trophy/building, but be maint free and sellable in return?

 

[Tarks]

TY for this - is ExtraModMod Continued multiplayer stable? Really enjoying it but don't want to rope friends that are already on the fence in unless I know it works well in multiplayer

 

[FireBlaze]

TY for this - is ExtraModMod Continued multiplayer stable? Really enjoying it but don't want to rope friends that are already on the fence in unless I know it works well in multiplayer

I've been running it in a pbem for the past 12ish months with no issues to speak of, except for one very recent waiting on civ that was fixed with a single turn rollback (always run random seed, folks). Can't speak as much for direct IP but I'd imagine it's fairly stable there as well, especially if its player-only.

Unrelated, but has there been any consideration to buffing Citadel of Light to not be garbage? Assuming it really just spawns one fireball a turn for 240 hammers, I was struck by how much cheaper it is relatively for the Luchuirp to one up it with their 45 hammer wooden golem fireball platforms. Could have the Citadel spawn one per unit and cap it at something like 3/4/8/12 or whatever a turn (maybe tied to how many you have built overall? idk), and they'd at least produce enough collateral to do SOMETHING besides make fun of you for bothering to invest in them.


e. is it also intended that you cant shuffle golden hammers around anymore to stack them, or was I messing that up somehow?

 

[ChiefBigFeather]

FFH and EMM have a variety of balance issues. Trade gets very OP very quickly, the health/happiness balance is completely off, there is no map script for balanced maps and some factions are clearly worse then others.

Solving those would involve a lot of work though. Civ adv is an excellent benchmark for good balance.

 

[Alekseyev_]

Is the Pillar of Chains not stacking with Governor's Manor intended? I vaguely recall this working in at least other modmods, but I could be way off and it's only worked in my dreams lol

I think so, I believe it would cause even more insane production than they already do. (I've always been thinking that Governor's Manors should only give 1 hammer per 2 pop, on that note)

Any recent consideration on changing the hammer cost of Guild of Hammers upward or changing the Eyes and Ears network affect? Both incredibly strong to gamewarping wonders.

Eyes and Ears network is really really expensive and comes at a late-midgame tech (and needs 5 inns), and then you need open borders for it to take any effect in the first place. This is easily avoided by humans and AIs are often not too border-happy either Agree that guild of hammers is really good value though.

e. is it also intended that you cant shuffle golden hammers around anymore to stack them, or was I messing that up somehow?

That was an intended change several years ago, yes. I think you cannot settle them at all anymore once you give them to a unit. (I think it's a bit of a shame but 100% understand the reasoning )

FFH and EMM have a variety of balance issues. Trade gets very OP very quickly, the health/happiness balance is completely off, there is no map script for balanced maps and some factions are clearly worse then others.

Solving those would involve a lot of work though. Civ adv is an excellent benchmark for good balance.

Oh absolutely. But with the big RNG part of FfH2, from events, barbarians and lairs, I think it will always remain fundamentally more unbalanced than vanilla civ or other mods. But I also think it's fine this way, it's a fantastic mod with a unique setting in a magical world, with very distinct civs, I think trying too hard to balance each and every aspect of it would mean having to reduce the variety and distinctiveness of many civs and other things.
Not saying some individual things, like wonders, unique units or worldspells shouldn't strive to be balanced all in all, but other aspects like civ-specific mechanics can only be adjusted to a certain degree before they are either too niche, only useful in rare situations, or all but aesthetic in nature.

 

[lfgr]

Is the Pillar of Chains not stacking with Governor's Manor intended? I vaguely recall this working in at least other modmods, but I could be way off and it's only worked in my dreams lol

Seems like this always was a yes/no per city.

Any recent consideration on changing the hammer cost of Guild of Hammers upward or changing the Eyes and Ears network affect? Both incredibly strong to gamewarping wonders.

e. saw a suggestion to require x forges to build Guild of Hammers, which would at least weaken one of its greatest strengths (being able to beeline engineering and ignore smelting for forges)

I think I never realized that you can build Guild of Hammers before you can build forges. What do others think about making it require both engineering and smelting?

e2. with the "Better Expansion AI" setting, there should probably be a Khazad-unique toggle for them to balance their gold with that logic, since they did expand very well but were on empty vaults the whole time.

Noted, though that may be hard to do.

e3. also also also a unit/spell that can break polar ice when, they're messing with my pretty BFCs

I don't particularly like that idea.

e4. Lizardmen Beastmasters dont seem to get the Warrens double production bonus. Iirc they usually work for national limited units that are organic so I think it's an oversight

All national units are explicitly excluded in the code, so this is intended.

e5. Is there a way to kill treasure chests if its a nations last unit? Love the "Require Total Kills" setting but it often ends up with treasure chest ghosts speaking to you from the other side

Noted.

e6. Ok so I kind of want an animal selling eco to be semi-viable, but the maint costs for just getting them to market often completely eat into your earnings or even make you negative. What if there was an irreversable "mark for sale" skill that made the animal unable to fight or be settled as a trophy/building, but be maint free and sellable in return?

Yeah, I agree that's a problem. The "unable to fight" part of your solution is something I don't like much, especially since it would be hard to distinguish in-game.
What about just, say, 15 turns of no maintenance for captured units, scaled by map size? That's probably not enough to really abuse. Capturing units from very far away for sale would be still non-viable, which is fine. Buffing animal-built buildings is also fine, IMO.

Unrelated, but has there been any consideration to buffing Citadel of Light to not be garbage? Assuming it really just spawns one fireball a turn for 240 hammers, I was struck by how much cheaper it is relatively for the Luchuirp to one up it with their 45 hammer wooden golem fireball platforms. Could have the Citadel spawn one per unit and cap it at something like 3/4/8/12 or whatever a turn (maybe tied to how many you have built overall? idk), and they'd at least produce enough collateral to do SOMETHING besides make fun of you for bothering to invest in them.

I'll think about this.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

I think I never realized that you can build Guild of Hammers before you can build forges. What do others think about making it require both engineering and smelting?

Heh, I almost never go smelting because I always go for GoH if I can. Not sure from a balance POV, though FFH2 tends to prefer deep research (which tech trading and proliferation hit, unfortunately, but that's a discussion for another day).

Yeah, I agree that's a problem. The "unable to fight" part of your solution is something I don't like much, especially since it would be hard to distinguish in-game.
What about just, say, 15 turns of no maintenance for captured units, scaled by map size? That's probably not enough to really abuse. Capturing units from very far away for sale would be still non-viable, which is fine. Buffing animal-built buildings is also fine, IMO.

AoE gives captured animals the ability to cast escape. I like this in theory, but it is open to abuse for risk-free exploration / attacks.