Faith centered strat

[Admiral_P33N]

Hey all! Im about to fire a game up with Theodora (Byzantium) mainly because I have yet to fully take advantage of the faith aspect of Civ 5. My main question is how do I move my way through the social policies "correctly?"

In most games I go tradition (unless I'm playing a civ where honor is preferred) but here I figured Piety would be the right thing to do? As I looked the trees I felt worse and worse about foregoing tradition, so I came here!

Basically I just want to maximize my start (Pantheon beliefs etc.) and start spreading faith like crazy. Also as a side note is it possible to achieve a timely wait by focusing on religion? I figured the belief system would allow me to customize my needs (Holy warriors for DV, etc.) and was just wondering if it was efficient and plausible. Thanks so much for your input, take care.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I don't think there is a situation where going full Piety will be better than going full Tradition, and it would only be better than Liberty in a map that is specifically good for Piety and bad for Liberty (boxed in early, start is loaded with wine). For a mega-faith based game, I'd rather play the Maya in a Liberty start and spam Pyramids.

 

[joncnunn]

Byzantium is the one civ that I would go Piety with. Because your entire UA is wasted if you don't found a religion at all, and your UA is much more powerful if you are early to found than if you are late.

For any other civ, starting terrain suitable for a faith based pantheon + tradition start + early shrine in the capital is enough.

 

[cpm4001]

I'm far from an expert, but I'd advocating opening Tradition and then going into full Piety. That gets you at least a tiny bit of extra culture, and while it may slightly delay completing Piety, it'll give you that great bonus to culture border expansion. Then, if you have extra policies before you hit Rationalism, you can fill out some more of the Tradition tree.

 

[Kintara]

Theodora is fun. One main reason to go Piety for her, in my opinion, would be to grab Unity of the Prophets, so that you can stuff a double Founder religion down everyone's throats and keep it there. Sacred Sites is cool too, if you can pull it off, but it can be tough to do so sometimes.

My suggestion for a civ to play full Piety would be the Songhai. The Mud Pyramid Mosque gives culture, and the amount of gold you generate with Theocracy is very noticeable when the temple is free of maintenance. Egypt is good for similar reasons, of course, but I think the Songhai are overlooked sometimes.

I wouldn't always commit to world religious conversion. I like to bring up how delicious piety holy sites are. Hermit religions are fun, too.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm far from an expert, but I'd advocating opening Tradition and then going into full Piety. That gets you at least a tiny bit of extra culture, and while it may slightly delay completing Piety, it'll give you that great bonus to culture border expansion. Then, if you have extra policies before you hit Rationalism, you can fill out some more of the Tradition tree.

The main problem with that when your opening Piety it's a race to finish the Piety tree before you already enhance your religion to avoid wasting the free Great Prophet.

In addition, the way city borders modifier is it doesn't "remember" the old cost already accrued so if later in the game you take the policy, you can end up with the capital growing one tile each of the next three to five turns as the borders catch up to what they would have been if you had had that policy all along.

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

The main problem with that when your opening Piety it's a race to finish the Piety tree before you already enhance your religion to avoid wasting the free Great Prophet..

Jon, I've found a lot of wisdom in most of your other posts, but disagree strongly with this point. Along with additional faith and a reformation belief, the strongest aspect of piety is making holy sites into super tiles. A holy site on a flat grassland tile yields 2F/3G/3C/6F after piety is complete; more commerce than an economics-enhanced trading post, as much culture as 3 unfilled amphitheaters, and as much faith as 2 piety-enriched temples, all in one self-feeding tile. I recommend the polar opposite of your advice, found and enhance your religion before completing piety, if conditions permit try to get the 500 GPP prophet for one super tile, and finish piety for a second, consider Hagia Sophia for a third, and the Mayans get a fourth. All those super tiles provide a foundation for your economy, keep future SP's rolling in, and the tons and tons of extra faith have a broad range of applications: once you finish rationalism buy a GS every couple of turns. Use holy warriors to amass a grand army. Finish aesthetics and faith-buy a culture victory.

Regarding the OP, Theodora is an enigmatic civ. Most of the zealot civs have a faith bonus whereas Theodora has extra incentive to found a religion but no bonus to make it happen, kind of like they get extra chips in a poker game but Theodora is all-in on religion regardless of whatever cards she's dealt. She needs quick faith to found her religion in time to grab the beliefs that best suit the map/goals and quick culture to get the reformation belief she wants (BTW, I don't know if I'd call it "correct," but I find the "optimum" path for piety is to beeline reformation.) So you need both and have bonuses for neither. I'd suggest seeing what the map gives you and compensate for the other. If there's a religious mountain and/or a religious CS that gives you some manageable missions, use the extra faith to found your religion earlier and have a pantheon that helps culture. If there's some culture CSs nearby with manageable missions, focus your pantheon on faith. Obviously the map dictates what the best options are.