Famous Korean civ youtuber discusses Sejong controversy.

[Kupe Navigator]

The video is in English.
What do you think? He expresses why Koreans are still upset with this issue.

 

[sukritact]

There's always mods!

But honestly, the designers were probably rather limited given the unfortunate combo of 1) they don't really seem to have programmers available for the Leader Pass and 2) the Korea civ (without leader), is already incredibly strong.

 

[pokiehl]

But honestly, the designers were probably rather limited given the unfortunate combo of 1) they don't really seem to have programmers available for the Leader Pass and 2) the Korea civ (without leader), is already incredibly strong.

Yeah, and despite that, I was pleasantly surprised by the 3 leaders in this pack, including Sejong. The team has gotten very creative with the tools they have available.

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah, with Korea I think reason #2 (how good Korea is even without a leader) is the biggest problem. I did expect that they would do something asymmetrical with Sejong. Without some sort of malus he would either have to be very bland or would comoletely overshadow Seondeok.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I myself was wondering what Sejong could actually bring to the table for a Korean civ, that Seondeok couldn't. I guess I was right in that it wasn't much of a difference and even less interesting than Seondeok, even if he still might be more powerful.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

2 main things Koreans find problems with Sejong:1 his LA is boring- almost boring and passive as Seondok.
2. His Hangul LA is nonsense that doesn't reflect achievements of Sejong or his creation of Hangul.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Korea had that nagging problem of being terribly designed to begin with, and that severely limits further design choices for Sejong.
Korea had that stupidly overpowered UD Seowon, which is designed in such a way that it is both too strong and also too "easy" to use. No careful planning, just mindlessly slap it down and reap high science yields. Having such a strong and easy district to use, Korea needs to be reined in for its other bonuses.

I personally dislike Korea in this game regardless of leader.
It is imo the worst designed civ in the game, in that it just frontloads very strong benefits with hardly any thought behind it.
Seondeok adds a flat % increase in science culture that you receive without changing your basic playstyle (assigning governors) and so does Sejong by giving you free culture for something you'd do anyway (teching stuff)
This makes Korea simultaneously very strong and very boring to play.
Very strong but won't play, regardless of leader.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

There's always mods!

But honestly, the designers were probably rather limited given the unfortunate combo of 1) they don't really seem to have programmers available for the Leader Pass and 2) the Korea civ (without leader), is already incredibly strong.

Mood of Korean civ communities are that of funeral not a party... kind of ironic is it not?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Korea had that nagging problem of being terribly designed to begin with, and that severely limits further design choices for Sejong.
Korea had that stupidly overpowered UD Seowon, which is designed in such a way that it is both too strong and also too "easy" to use. No careful planning, just mindlessly slap it down and reap high science yields. Having such a strong and easy district to use, Korea needs to be reined in for its other bonuses.

I personally dislike Korea in this game regardless of leader.
It is imo the worst designed civ in the game, in that it just frontloads very strong benefits with hardly any thought behind it.
Seondeok adds a flat % increase in science culture that you receive without changing your basic playstyle (assigning governors) and so does Sejong by giving you free culture for something you'd do anyway (teching stuff)
This makes Korea simultaneously very strong and very boring to play.
Very strong but won't play, regardless of leader.

Very true. I don't know what the Devs were thinking back in Rise and Fall.

 

[Starina]

Mood of Korean civ communities are that of funeral not a party... kind of ironic is it not?

Maybe they'll be happy if Korea is in vanilla 7? ))

 

[King William I]

Korea had that nagging problem of being terribly designed to begin with, and that severely limits further design choices for Sejong.
Korea had that stupidly overpowered UD Seowon, which is designed in such a way that it is both too strong and also too "easy" to use. No careful planning, just mindlessly slap it down and reap high science yields. Having such a strong and easy district to use, Korea needs to be reined in for its other bonuses.

I personally dislike Korea in this game regardless of leader.
It is imo the worst designed civ in the game, in that it just frontloads very strong benefits with hardly any thought behind it.
Seondeok adds a flat % increase in science culture that you receive without changing your basic playstyle (assigning governors) and so does Sejong by giving you free culture for something you'd do anyway (teching stuff)
This makes Korea simultaneously very strong and very boring to play.
Very strong but won't play, regardless of leader.

But is the Seowon really that good? Sure it's a lot of science without a lot of investment, but unless you really spread your cities out (you know like that massive sprawling empire the Hermit Kingdom had in real life) you're either going to have to build districts next to them, making them less good if not outright worse than a regular campus's adjacency, or build your other districts in less optimal places. A poor design choice considering the entirety of Korea's kit is based on this district, and you're limited in where you can build the dang thing.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

This is what Korean civ communities think about civ 6 sejong in a nutshell.

Fraxis JUST DIDN'T CARE!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It seems like each iteration of civ features one civ who is focused on Science to the point of being utterly banal. For Civ 6, it was apparently Korea's turn in the barrel.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

It seems like each iteration of civ features one civ who is focused on Science to the point of being utterly banal. For Civ 6, it was apparently Korea's turn in the barrel.

Which is why so many Korean civ players are ditching civ 6 Sejong to civ 5 sejong.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

But is the Seowon really that good? Sure it's a lot of science without a lot of investment, but unless you really spread your cities out (you know like that massive sprawling empire the Hermit Kingdom had in real life) you're either going to have to build districts next to them, making them less good if not outright worse than a regular campus's adjacency, or build your other districts in less optimal places. A poor design choice considering the entirety of Korea's kit is based on this district, and you're limited in where you can build the dang thing.

Yes it is that good, because there is almost no city placement that wont have a hill in it for that easy adjacency.
Not getting an adjacent district is pretty easy to secure, and even if you do, we're still talking about a very easy +3 Seowon, which is plenty strong considering the base yield, and that you dont need to worry about mountain ranges etc, and get it for half price to boot.
This thing rewards mindless settling where the science starts rolling in quickly for minimal effort, regardless of landscape.
The Seowon is terribly designed for that reason, because it teaches you (and rewards) how not to play the game.

 

[UWHabs]

Canada finally made it to civ after all the years and we got Mounties and Hockey Rinks. The civ creators do not always make choices that are the best.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But is the Seowon really that good? Sure it's a lot of science without a lot of investment, but unless you really spread your cities out (you know like that massive sprawling empire the Hermit Kingdom had in real life) you're either going to have to build districts next to them, making them less good if not outright worse than a regular campus's adjacency, or build your other districts in less optimal places. A poor design choice considering the entirety of Korea's kit is based on this district, and you're limited in where you can build the dang thing.

It is early game, even when the AI uses it is. Is it better in the long run than amazing normal campus spots surrounded by mountains, no. But it is better than the average campus, at least.

It seems like each iteration of civ features one civ who is focused on Science to the point of being utterly banal. For Civ 6, it was apparently Korea's turn in the barrel.

To me the civ revolving around mainly science isn't necessarily the problem. The problem to me is that they released two leaders who also both passively get cultural bonuses as well. One of them at least could have had religious bonuses.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

It is early game, even when the AI uses it is. Is it better in the long run than amazing normal campus spots surrounded by mountains, no. But it is better than the average campus, at least.


To me the civ revolving around mainly science isn't necessarily the problem. The problem to me is that they released two leaders who also both passively get cultural bonuses as well. One of them at least could have had religious bonuses.

Sejong could've been culture and science leader who gave Korea edge in cultural victory with Great works of writing.
I am mad that they didn't do anything with bookworm concept of Sejong. It would've been stereotypical yes but at least it would've meant something to Sejong!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sejong could've been culture and science leader who gave Korea edge in cultural victory with Great works of writing.
I am mad that they didn't do anything with bookworm concept of Sejong. It would've been stereotypical yes but at least it would've meant something to Sejong!

They just released a Great works of writing leader with Sundiata, so they probably didn't want to repeat that concept.
Honesty free inspirations whenever you built a Seowon, library and university could have worked too.

 

[DeutschDachs]

It's kind of funny to me that a slightly boring ability qualifies as "controversy." If this is the reaction to an underwhelming ability I can't imagine what would happen if Korea had a meme for a leader (like India's nuclear Gandhi) or if their leader was portrayed as deceitful and essentially a villain (Persia's Cyrus) or if they used a foreign occupier as the leader (Cleopatra for Egypt). Could be much worse!