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Fastest Science Victory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lightning5555, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    820
    Do you accumulate enough faith to buy 5-7 universities at Education with Jesuit? Also I don't know if you do this already, but you could give the +100 gold founder belief a try to get tons of pre-Education gold. If you convert all 16 CSs, at least 7 AI cities and 5-7 of your own, you get 2800-3000 gold from religion in total. Probably a bit less than Tithe in the end, but you get the full benefit earlier.

    What ruin rewards do you pick as the Shoshone? Settler, worker are obvious picks but what about the third ruin in the cycle (before turn 20)?
     
  2. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    339
    No, in multiple attempts I didn't accumulate enough faith to buy 5+ Universities - probably 2 at most immediately faith-bought, then waiting on others - and I'm not sure how I could by T75-80. In a sense, the choice of putting 4 policies into Jesuit (usually with Liberty, as a Tradition/Piety combo means delaying finishing Tradition) comes at the trade-off of both finishing Tradition (faith-bought GEs) and reaching Mercantilism.

    I've been going with Tithe and planting prophets, most likely exceeding 3000 gold without actively spread beyond my own cities, and then hitting some big late-game faith #s. I'm considering spreading a moderate amount in future attempts, primarily to maintain CS relations longer with key CS (which could both earn and save gold).

    My 3rd ruin pick has varied. In Liberty attempts, I went Culture (probably twice). In Tradition attempts, aiming for full Tradition and 2-3 in Commerce before Rationalism, I find I don't want any culture ruins, as I may reach the 7th policy choice before Medieval, so I'm picking Population, unit upgrade, or gold depending on the situation (i.e if I haven't yet planted 2nd city and capital just grew to 2 pop, then immediately jumping to 3 pop has good value).
     
  3. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I got a T148 victory on Highlands with a 6-city Tradition-Mercantilism build. To me this feels like the most powerful mix on Settler, turn 50-something Tradition finisher is too good. Highlands corner start seems incredibly powerful as well, you get a lot of ruins near your starting location and you can actually park one of the pathfinders next to them, then wait for the Settler/Worker options to appear. There's no risk of AIs taking those ruins because their warriors are too far away - Highlands is a big map.

    I took the +100 gold founder belief and I'm pretty confident it was a better pick than Tithe. I had 34 or so cities following my religion in the end, and most of them were converted pre-Plastics. I don't think Tithe brings you 3000 gold by turn 120-125, and post-Plastics gold doesn't seem to matter if you have Big Ben and Mercantilism. It's always something other than gold that's the limiting factor, for me at least.

    Unfortunately I didn't manage my faith very well. In the end I didn't have enough to buy the third GS, which slowed me down by 3 or 4 turns. I wasn't really planning on buying 3 GSs in the first place, as I figured I wasn't getting enough faith from terrain for that (the only city with a good amount of desert was the capital), but it was a mistake to buy a GE for Statue of Liberty. I could've hard-built that and it wouldn't cost me much.

    20170323125945_1.jpg
     
  4. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    339
    Well done vadalaz and thanks for mentioning parking pathfinders next to nearby ruins, I hadn't been doing that. How many pathfinders did you go with? Also, how many of each science building were you able to purchase? I'll definitely be trying a game with +100 gold founder belief now!
     
  5. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I built 5 pathfinders. Also built a spearman and an archer a bit later to clear nearby barb camps... At some point I started radaring the area near my military units to guide them to barb camps and collect the 50 gold rewards for clearing those. Those really add up over time.

    My early goal was to have 2 workers per city, so my pre-t20 ruin cycle was settler-worker-gold and I think I hard-built a worker in 5 cities before starting granaries. The idea was to get roads up very quickly, and farm as many riverside tiles as I could by the time I hit Civil Service. I was making ~80 gpt by the time I hit Education thanks to the road connections.

    I purchased 4 universities (3 instantly and 1 more a couple of turns later; no Mercantilism), 5 schools (Mercantilism), and 6 labs (Merc+Big Ben). Also bought 5 workshops I believe. Maybe it was better to buy Observatories, but the workshops sped up some important stuff like the Artists' Guild, Machu Picchu etc. I took Mercantilism after Secularism, didn't manage to fit it in before Renaissance despite pushing culture pretty hard. Even built Parthenon.

    Early 140s is definitely doable, maybe a narrow sub-140 but that seems really difficult. Maybe on a dream desert map, or desert/jungle for a nice post-Education boost.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017 at 6:16 AM
  6. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
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    Interesting, so 8 military units (starting pathfinder, 5x built pathfinders, spearman and archer) - definitely more than I was producing. Same with the workers, I've been leaving cities with 0-1 worker for far too long, it seems.

    In the maps I rolled, I was more likely to get a 'dream desert' or desert/jungle map using the Inland Sea map type. That reduces the number of ruins and barbs camps (re: gold) you'll get, though it does speed up meeting everyone.
     
  7. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
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    Oh sorry, it was 5 pathfinders including the starting one. I built the spearman and archer to complete two cultural CS quests near my starting location, as all the pathfinders were too far away and I was trying to get Mercantilism asap. Eventually I got some gifts from Militaristic CSs so I sent those hunting for barb camps/CS tributes as well.

    I tried a couple of Inland Sea starts, but the map script didn't seem that great on Standard size to me. In one of the attempts I couldn't even find a ruin after turn 20 to get my pantheon up. On Huge it's probably the best map for fast SVs though.
     
  8. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

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    How quickly did you have your 6th city settled in your T148 game? I think that would give a good approximate target point.

    On Highlands, I think horseman (upgrade to Knight) is a good unit to build/buy for nearby barb camp quests, while upgrading most of the pathfinders can resolve quests further away.

    My very first map rolled on Inland Sea was incredible; that created a bias and convinced me to try many more starts on that map type, though I did get down to mid-T150s. It also makes for a faster game, but I agree that Highland map should be the best/fastest possible on standard/Settler.
     
  9. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

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    I planted the 6th city on turn 27. Didn't build or buy any settlers, got all 5 of them from ruins. Other milestones were:

    - T72 NC
    - T76 Education
    - T107 Sci Theory (bulb)
    - T125 Plastics (bulb at Radio and another one at Replaceable parts)

    For a sub-140 you'd need a T120 or earlier Plastics I guess, then finish the game in 20 turns from there. Seems really difficult though, I'm not sure how I could've shaved off 5 or more turns off my Plastics timing there other than by bulbing another GS. Have you done the math regarding building LToP right away or delaying it on settler? I delayed it in my game, could've had it on T107 or perhaps T100-102 if I took a different tech path, delaying Astronomy.
     
  10. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

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    I've bulbed similarly, and also bulbed as:
    1 GS into Industrial (either to get in ASAP re: faith accumulation or at Scientific Theory)
    Oxford into Radio
    1 bulb for the 2 techs preceding Plastics
    1 bulb for Plastics
    So, 3 GS and Oxford all before Plastics. I did this in 1 or 2 of my fastest games following previous games where I had 1-2 GS leftover.

    I think I did the math back when I saw your T164 or so finish and was working towards breaking T160. I elected to built LToP immediately and part of my rationale was to ensure a 3rd natural GW and GA. The faster the finish, the more reason to delay LToP. If putting Science Funding through the World Congress, there's potential to not reach 3rd GW in time or have 3rd GA late enough to have little impact. I likely need to build Guilds earlier, but my early game isn't as strong as yours.
     

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