I don't really see Trump as planning ahead, tbh. He barely seems able to think in words with more than two syllables.
FBI raids Mar-A-Lago; Known criminal Donald Trump still at large
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
Sure, but I suppose intent is a critical issue. Can't have a conspiracy if he is was too dumb and/or indifferent to have meant for it to be one. For all we know he just thought that the potus can move documents to his private property (would anyone really be surprised if he did?)
Then again, I am against taking the easy way out and banning someone from running when they may indeed win.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I doubt that Donald Trump knows what documents he has had taken to his various abodes.
Besides which these days most documents exist in digital format so nothing is lost if a print
out has been taken home, and nothing is gained by getting the paper copy back.
To me the only issue is if any of those copies contain secret national security
information in which case they should simply either be destroyed or returned.
I think the process is likely much more about continually making demands so
that when he does not comply, he can be found guilty of contempt of court.
They told him to return the docs. He returned some of them.
That aside, intent matters in some crimes (like, say, homicides). It does not in other crimes (like various sorts of theft). What we're discussing here is the latter.
I think this is a reasonable hypothesis. That said, we're waiting for the evidence. If it turns out that he'd failed to return named documents that were actually classified, then it's a problem for him. (You return classified documents so that they can be destroyed according to protocol, we don't trust someone else to destroy documents).
As I said, if a team of agents can find the document in the course of hours, it's reasonable that a billionaire can find it in months.
(It doesn't matter if he doesn't know about the documents, he's expected to be responsible for the actions of his underlings and hirees. He's expected to be competent enough to hire someone to find it.)
It does make me wonder - what percentage of docs that a US president will have filed in his own (Oval) office will not be classified at some significant level?
EnglishEdward
Deity
@ El_Machinae
Protocol varies.
I destroyed copies of sensitive documents myself when I no longer had a legitimate use for them.
I didn't see any point in putting them in an envelope and relying on someone else, as that
risked loss of envelope in transit and the possibility the recipient would not securely destroy them.
Protocol varies.
I destroyed copies of sensitive documents myself when I no longer had a legitimate use for them.
I didn't see any point in putting them in an envelope and relying on someone else, as that
risked loss of envelope in transit and the possibility the recipient would not securely destroy them.
Protocol does vary. Are you, or have you ever been, the President of the United States? Do you actually know the protocols you're alluding to, or is this just a rhetorical exercise?
Sure, but what if this all doesn't get resolved until well into 2024, and Trump, being Trump, insists on running for president anyway, while he's currently under investigation for a crime that could get him barred from holding office?
Someone else highly unlikely to know those protocols, is Trump ^_^
EnglishEdward
Deity
@ Gorbles
No, not for the POTUS, it is a discussion with El Machinae.
@El_Machinae
Donald Trump was defeated and is yesterday's man.
The opportunity to convict him was at the impeachment.
Having failed on that, they'd do better to ignore rather than martyr him.
Still I am not a US citizen, so I have no dog in this issue.
No, not for the POTUS, it is a discussion with El Machinae.
@El_Machinae
Donald Trump was defeated and is yesterday's man.
The opportunity to convict him was at the impeachment.
Having failed on that, they'd do better to ignore rather than martyr him.
Still I am not a US citizen, so I have no dog in this issue.
Once upon a time, I was very familiar with the handling of classified material in the US. When of sufficiently high classification, it was actually 'checked out' and its return documented (and then destroyed). We didn't want the person possessing it to destroy it on their own, because #1 they may not do it according to regulations (we had a machine that rendered paper into frikkin powder), and #2 they might not do it at all.
This is all secondary to the fact that continuing to possess classified material is illegal from a 'maintaining secrets' standpoint and/or a 'maintain records of what happened' standpoint. And it's pretty sad (not SAD!, just sad) that we wonder whether Trump's motive here (aside from plain stupidity) is selling secrets in some way, or blurring/erasing the record of his actions. Or, y'know, both.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I came across the individually formally tracked document process, and complied with it, I think once in my career.
Anyway, until we get a list of what is in the safe, this sub-strand is a little theoretical.
And Joe Biden is POTUS now, perhaps someone might start a thread as to what he is doing.
Agreed. This is why I wrote down some criteria of what would constitute 'legitimate' results from FBI action.
Feel free! Would save us space on this endless prevaricating about why Trump might not be responsible for the things he's literally been recorded as doing.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
A fan of appeasement and lawlessness, I see.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I am not a fan of misusing the law to take petty revenge on an opponent thoroughly defeated 18 months ago.
Edmund Ironside
White Rabbit Object
He did just help to pass a 370 billion dollar bill for climate change action.
Trump however is so much more entertaining than Biden (Trump is entertaining like a dark comedy or cringe, you want to look away, but can't).
