Feedback thread

DP I guess but it didn't fit in the previous post. So, it appears there is definetely a bug in the Behemoth unit. I have problems selecting one when other units are in the stack (it's like it is being ignored or something), no graphic appears upon selection and generally there is no interface for it. I can still attack or bombard, but I can't upgrade. I have one now that has 12/5 XP and I see the upgrade glow, but I cannot upgrade. I have attached a save game, it should load centered in a base called Hawkins, where at least one Behemoth is situated. I should make it clear that ALL Behemoth units have the same problem.
 
I'm afraid I have never been able to replicate that problem or figure out a reason why there would be a problem. However I've just ordered a new computer. Hopefully(?) I'll be able to experience the problem myself then.
 
OK, no worries, it's hardly game-breaking. The mod is still great. I think it even has improved on the original in some points. For example, I like how you've re-arranged the tech tree, it now feels more natural.
 
Some further feedback:

1) Playing as the Believers, I found that the cultural golden age mechanic is extremely overpowered in the hands of a human player. Given that the Believers' theme (which I actively pursued) is that of an Edenist (influence bonus) Terraformer and after a couple of successful wars that gained me a well established realm, the culture accumulation was producing golden ages very frequently. From a point onwards (around middle-to-endgame) the cultural thresholds were overlapping, thus creating a never ending golden age. Strangely enough, the AI doesn't seem to do well when controlling Miriam, they're always underdogs so far in all my games.

2a) I started a game as the University only to spawn and take control of the Cyborgs. Somebody already mentioned the "Please don't go..." sound playing when engaging in diplomacy and I can confirm that. Also, whenever I am talking to the University, I am unable to put anything on the table other than credits. However, if I choose something from Zakharov (e.g. world map, technology) and prompt him to name a price, he may request anything. If I remove his requests from the table, I can't put them back and again I can only offer credits.

2b) Ever since I took control of the Cyborgs (it's been about 150 turns now), the University has not expanded beyond the three bases I had already established although there is unclaimed, fungus-free territory next to them that can easily accomodate 3-4 bases. This may be coincidental, but it doesn't seem regular AI behaviour to halt expansion like that with only three bases at its disposal.

Finally, any info on the unused secret project movies? I know some projects have been turned into simple buildings/religions and that's fine, however there are still some that are completely missing. Are you not happy with any form of incorporation? Seems like a waste of cool clips :D.
 
Hi. I really enjoyed playing v15, you have put in so much amazing work. It is much more polished than the previous versions of Planetfall, and with a few tweaks I can see it turning into a seriously awesome game.

I have some minor bugs to report, and some thoughts on the overall feel of the game. Apologies if I am re-iterating things which others have already posted, or have been fixed.

Bugs:

1) [Deleted for being nonsense nothing to do with Planetfall]

2) I think that the word "Vendetta" should be substituted for "War" much more frequently.

3) Despite researching the Mag Tube tech, I cannot build Mag Tubes. No "build Mag Tube" button shows up for my formers, and clicking the "Route To- Mode" button doesn't do anything. I couldn't find any option for building normal roads either, and this made movement of units extremely difficult and frustrating, especially with the different hill sizes obstructing movement.

4) Text in the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty refers to nuclear weapons, rather than "Planet Busters".

5) The description/strategy tips sections for missionary units relate to Judaism and the Temple of Solomon, rather than the Planetfall religions.

6) I found that I had abstained from several council/Concordat votes, without being asked how I wanted to vote.

7) The combat odds are frequently reported incorrectly. I found myself winning a lot of battles, despite victory odds as low as 0.2 % being shown.

8) This might be my lack of experience in terraforming and building improvements, but I found that starting position really affects how well you do. Could this be better balanced?

9) This mod crashes in Ubuntu when running under Wine, as soon as I hit "Single Player" at the main menu. This happens in other mods too, and I don't expect it to be a priority for the Planetfall team, but if anyone knows what the problem could be, please PM me ;)

10) Also, it would be cool if the difficulty levels were re-named....Thinker, Transcend, etc :D

Other thoughts/suggestions:

1) There should be some sort of tutorial to introduce basic game concepts. I am very familar with SMAC and Civ4, but felt lost at sea with this mod. I don't know if I should be building cottages or what! Just knowing what sort of balance of improvements bases should have, or where to build which improvements, would be very useful.

2) Ditto for the resources and technologies. There are an overwhelming number of different resources to take in at the start of the game. It would be better if these were streamlined, so you don't have so many resources which do the same thing. I think it would also be better if more resources were hidden at the start of the game and then revealed using different technologies. At the same time, there is a vast number of technologies available, and it is hard to see how these lead to different strategies. In my games it seems that everyone was rushing for inVitros.

3) You should get some benefit to destroying mindworms, as in the original SMAC where you were able to harvest Planetpearls for energy.

4) The map is really really busy. There is so much colour and mess on it it is difficult to see what is happening. It is very jarring.

5) I think that the rise of Alien Crossfire factions should be optional. Having such a large number of factions in every game becomes very confusing and less fun. Either that, or some of the Alien Crossfire factions should either be redesignated as City States or Barbarian factions (or even Corporations???). I like playing the odd game with them for the variety, but personally think that they detract from the themes of the game. See 6).

6) I felt that the major theme of SMAC was the ideological conflict between the factions. To an extent I feel that this is present in Planetfall, in that the Gaians like you more or less based on your Planet rating. However, I did not feel that similar modifiers were at work with the other factions - eg, the Morgans appreciating Free Markets and opposing other economies, Spartans appreciating Power over other ideologies, etc. In the original SMAC every faction had clear likes and dislikes, and one of the best parts of the game was the simple, yet powerful symmetry between these that could be achieved by 7 factions choosing from 3 options in 3 different policy categories (followed later by the futuristic options, too). I think that this should be emphasised in the Civic options in Planetfall.
Having the Alien Crossfire factions always included also muddies the concept of the ideological conflicts a lot, IMHO.

7) Jungles are present at the beginning of the game. This does not fit with the storyline, and adds to the confusion described in 2) and 4).

8) There is very little focus on the Alpha Centauri storyline, which is very confusing for people who aren't familiar with the original story. I really liked the text interludes in SMAC which told you what was happening in the bases and how the technologies you were discovering were changing things. This doesn't have to be extensive or dynamic to have a massive effect.

9) There should be an option to turn of the different hill sizes that block movement. It is an interesting feature, but it has such a drastic impact on gameplay I think players should be able to leave it out if they wish.

10) I think the thing that 2) 4) 7) and 8) are all indicative of is that while all the techs and features are present in the game, the biggest thing that is missing is the feel of development as the game progresses. In the original SMAC, you land on Planet and there is nothing there but rock and fungus. It is down to you to cover the land in farms, forests and terraform it as you see fit - this in turn influences your research path, the social policies you implement and the units you build. It is the arrival of the humans that influences the flowering of Planet as much as anything else.
In Planetfall as it is, tons of stuff - jungles, fungus, twenty different resources, "advanced units" such as choppers and artillery - is already there from turn 1 when you land and stuff gets confusing, and TBH a little boring, quickly. I felt like I was just building bases and trying to get to the next improved infantry unit faster than the AI. The gameplay didn't really change as the game progressed. Changing this should be the Planetfall team's next major priority.

Thank you for reading this. I will play some more of v15 and maybe post some more thoughts later. I look forward to seeing the next version. Thank you so much for bringing Alpha Centauri back to life!!!!
 
Hi. I really enjoyed playing v15, you have put in so much amazing work. It is much more polished than the previous versions of Planetfall, and with a few tweaks I can see it turning into a seriously awesome game.

I have some minor bugs to report, and some thoughts on the overall feel of the game. Apologies if I am re-iterating things which others have already posted, or have been fixed.

...

Thank you for reading this. I will play some more of v15 and maybe post some more thoughts later. I look forward to seeing the next version. Thank you so much for bringing Alpha Centauri back to life!!!!

There won't be a next version. Planetfall is as complete as it'll ever be, as good as it'll ever get. ;) If there is ever going to be a next version, it would be for Civ5/6. As a consequence I won't reply to your comments on the gameplay, only on the comments on the storyline and some available options you might have missed.

2) I think that the word "Vendetta" should be substituted for "War" much more frequently.

Vendetta is the word SMAC uses.

3) Despite researching the Mag Tube tech, I cannot build Mag Tubes. No "build Mag Tube" button shows up for my formers, and clicking the "Route To- Mode" button doesn't do anything. I couldn't find any option for building normal roads either, and this made movement of units extremely difficult and frustrating, especially with the different hill sizes obstructing movement.

Perhaps you're mistaken about what the "Mag Tube tech" is, or perhaps you're trying to build magtubes on fungus or rocky terrain, where this isn't allowed?

6) I found that I had abstained from several council/Concordat votes, without being asked how I wanted to vote.

Are you sure you are a member of the Planetary Council and Concordat?

7) The combat odds are frequently reported incorrectly. I found myself winning a lot of battles, despite victory odds as low as 0.2 % being shown.

I've never heard someone say this before, so I'd need to see save for this.

10) Also, it would be cool if the difficulty levels were re-named....Thinker, Transcend, etc :D

While cool, that would most likely add to the confusion of new players, even SMAC veterans, as they might not know what name they needed to pick to get their usual difficulty level.

5) I think that the rise of Alien Crossfire factions should be optional. Having such a large number of factions in every game becomes very confusing and less fun. Either that, or some of the Alien Crossfire factions should either be redesignated as City States or Barbarian factions (or even Corporations???). I like playing the odd game with them for the variety, but personally think that they detract from the themes of the game. See 6).

There is a game option for this in fact. Scroll to the bottom of the list of game options.

6) I felt that the major theme of SMAC was the ideological conflict between the factions. To an extent I feel that this is present in Planetfall, in that the Gaians like you more or less based on your Planet rating. However, I did not feel that similar modifiers were at work with the other factions - eg, the Morgans appreciating Free Markets and opposing other economies, Spartans appreciating Power over other ideologies, etc. In the original SMAC every faction had clear likes and dislikes, and one of the best parts of the game was the simple, yet powerful symmetry between these that could be achieved by 7 factions choosing from 3 options in 3 different policy categories (followed later by the futuristic options, too). I think that this should be emphasised in the Civic options in Planetfall.
Having the Alien Crossfire factions always included also muddies the concept of the ideological conflicts a lot, IMHO.

That is included. Check the diplomatic modifiers you get with the leaders.

7) Jungles are present at the beginning of the game. This does not fit with the storyline, and adds to the confusion described in 2) and 4).

Jungle represents Monsoon Jungle, present in SMAC.
 
Thanks for the response Maniac - some of my comments were a bit premature it seems! I'm still enjoying Planetfall, and look forward to seeing the Civ5/6 version. Keep up the good work :D

EDIT: RE my comment about combat odds, I have since seen this happening in other non-Planetfall games as well, so is probably a glitch on my end that has recently started appearing.
 
9) This mod crashes in Ubuntu when running under Wine, as soon as I hit "Single Player" at the main menu. This happens in other mods too, and I don't expect it to be a priority for the Planetfall team, but if anyone knows what the problem could be, please PM me ;)

I get this same problem when running under Wine, although I haven't seen it in any other mods, myself-- just this one. That said, I can very occasionally (10% of the time, maybe) get lucky and get into the game without the crash. I think clicking around into the other menus before heading into Single Player helps, but it's hard to tell.

When I CAN get into the game, however, it's an extremely enjoyable and well-done mod, and I want to give huge props to Maniac for combining two of my favorite games of all time :)
 
Wouldn't it be more logical to choose the unit's special abilities the moment it is built, instead of current behavior? For now, I postpone the choice until I need the ability. It looks silly when a large number of units suddenly 'decide' they are equipped with anti-personnel weaponry, as opposed to being built with it. Yet the game actively promotes this behavior, since units with no abilites selected cost less to support.

Could it be changed so that the player is forced to choose the abilities on the same turn the unit is built, otherwise 'light' special ability is selected automatically?
 
Wouldn't it be more logical to choose the unit's special abilities the moment it is built, instead of current behavior? For now, I postpone the choice until I need the ability. It looks silly when a large number of units suddenly 'decide' they are equipped with anti-personnel weaponry, as opposed to being built with it. Yet the game actively promotes this behavior, since units with no abilites selected cost less to support.

Could it be changed so that the player is forced to choose the abilities on the same turn the unit is built, otherwise 'light' special ability is selected automatically?

A long time ago on this thread I commented about how I thought the different units should be like. The mod owner didn't agree with me. :D However, one of the points I made does apply here. In today's military we are seeing a movement away from lots of different vehicles and more towards a light, medium and heavy chassis which is modified as needed.

This "Block 10" program in the US military ended up getting scrubbed but the concept remained in that the Bradley chassis is used for the light, the M1 Abrams chassis for the medium and a newer vehicle designed for the heavy.

So I can see this idea being taken to Chiron. However, I agree with you that vehicles should have certain innate abilities which negate one's later on. Logically (but not necessarily good for the game) new unit promotions should cost some credits or should increase the maintenance cost.

Of course one of the problems is one would have to really redo the entire promotion system. I mean on one hand you'd have promotions which are the result of combat leading to an increase due to experience. Of course that really makes no sense since that "training" might last a turn or so (depending on what era you're in) I mean it really makes no sense in vanilla Civ a spearman which gains a +1 attack bonus promotion would retain it even after being upgraded to a pikeman centuries later and then later to a rifleman and later Mech Infantry.

A less "fun" but more logical approach would be to simply keep with the original Alpha Centauri unit creation where all the "promotions" are based on technology which is added to make the unit more capable like being amphibious. One could argue any unit should be allowed to be 'promoted' under that system if one is willing to pay for it.
 
Logically (but not necessarily good for the game) new unit promotions should cost some credits or should increase the maintenance cost.
Aren't we confusing abilities and promotions? Abilities depend on technology level, while promotions depend on combat experience. The former cost extra maintainance, the latter don't. I am perfectly fine with the current system, except for the point I made.

I would like to consider this purely from a gameplay perspective. Desicions concerning special abilities shoudn't be made in combat, you should plan specialization of your units in advance.

Promotions usually don't have such a drastic effect, and are harder to get, which is why I am fine with them as they are.
 
Wouldn't it be more logical to choose the unit's special abilities the moment it is built, instead of current behavior? For now, I postpone the choice until I need the ability. It looks silly when a large number of units suddenly 'decide' they are equipped with anti-personnel weaponry, as opposed to being built with it. Yet the game actively promotes this behavior, since units with no abilites selected cost less to support.

Could it be changed so that the player is forced to choose the abilities on the same turn the unit is built, otherwise 'light' special ability is selected automatically?

I like the idea, but to be implemented I think that at the end of your turn the game should refocus on units that haven't chosen a spec ab yet, as is the case in Civ5. Unfortunately I don't have a clue how to do that.
 
I like the idea, but to be implemented I think that at the end of your turn the game should refocus on units that haven't chosen a spec ab yet, as is the case in Civ5. Unfortunately I don't have a clue how to do that.

While it would certainly be nice to be reminded about units that didn't choose their abilities yet, I do not believe it is necessary. The point of this change is to choose the ability for the unit immediately after it is out of the workshop. If the player decides there are more important tasks, there is always a 'wait' command. You will return to that unit later on, the message to end the turn wouldn't appear while there are active units that are able to move.

The only way anyone can miss their chance to upgrade the unit is if they end their turn prematuraly, and there is a warning for that. Or if they deliberately decide to postpone the upgrade, and this suggestion was made specifically to prevent that.
 
The problem is that most people "don't read the manual" and wouldn't be aware of this feature even if it was mentioned on several places in the documentation. They'd think it was a bug their spec abs disappeared and start complaining on the forum or just quit the mod because they think it's broken.
 
The problem is that most people "don't read the manual" and wouldn't be aware of this feature even if it was mentioned on several places in the documentation.
These people would probably have much bigger issues with Planetfall. Lack of roads, bases that don't starve, some strange red and green counters, terrain that must be travelled in bizarre patterns and whatnot. Planetfall did introduce quite a number of interesting concepts, and it is pretty hard to play the game efficiently - or at all - without at least glancing at readme.

Besides, special abilities were made available in Planetfall, IIRC there were only promotions in the vanilla Civ. There are no rules, no old habits that might interfere with the player's understanding as to how they are supposed to work. In that case, why not make them work like you wanted them to? :)
 
These people would probably have much bigger issues with Planetfall. Lack of roads, bases that don't starve, some strange red and green counters, terrain that must be travelled in bizarre patterns and whatnot. Planetfall did introduce quite a number of interesting concepts, and it is pretty hard to play the game efficiently - or at all - without at least glancing at readme.
It's hard to play it efficiently, but it's still playable, I think. Especially a hardcore industrial strategy works decently if you just follow your Civ patterns, making the extra concepts new space to discover. Movement is a bit odd, but the computer avoids "wrong" movement - you can't do anything wrong.

Special abilities, however, work similar enough to promotions that they should at least not subvert expectations by suddenly disappearing. Even as somebody who has read the manual, I'd find spec abs that disappear at the end of turn without warning (besides the initial focus) highly annoying, because it just feels like a "gotcha, didn't pay enough attention, didn't you?" concept. Civ4/Planetfall already requires quite a bit of mental bookkeeping and tracking.

In my opinion it would only really work if you get a refocus and some warning message along the lines of "You haven't chosen special abilities for one or more new units. If you proceed, they will be equipped with Light Reactors. (Proceed) (Focus on unit) (Cancel)".

Cheers, LT.
 
Since working on some graphics also got me back into playing Planetfall more often... some questions/suggestions/random thoughts:

1) How is the affinity gene treatment calculated? Does it take map size into account? I'm asking because I was playing on a large map and was aiming for Transcendence... and something interesting happened: The FC was at 78, so couldn't switch to Transcendence yet. Then the Affinity Gene treatment... pushed the FC to 102 in one massive swing - which made Transcendence an insta-win. I think that could happen on a normal map as well, especially with Yang's massive population in the late game.

2) Terraforming is fun, I think even Hybrids need some of the fun, but communes come extremely late (so late, that they don't actually do anything useful), sea communes are just about useful. Is there any reason why they are only available so late? And why sea communes are available first? Wouldn't it be more interesting to have them available earlier, but just weaker?

3) While I have mostly come to terms with the tech tree structure of Planetfall, I still kind of dislike how much it encourages beelining in the Hybrid and the Physics themes - why I'm picking on these two? Because they're both allowing you to win by reaching their end (Transcendence/Interstellar Gate). I feel these two should require some AND prerequisites (or even better: something like [previous tech] AND ([one tech] OR [another tech]). I could see both tech paths to have two "related" tech paths that would fill the OR prerequisites (in other words: to win at Transcendence, you need to research the Hybrid techs and either the medicine/genetics OR the terraform techs and for the gate the Physics techs and either the build or the biosphere/naval/space techs).

4) Being able to skip planting fungus and going straight to hybrid forests is a bit strange. Tying in with 3), it would be interesting to have a more "fungus planting" phase, followed by the "hybrid foresting" phase (for which you need a strong foundation in either the terraform or medicine/genetics techs).

Mostly idle thoughts, but would be interesting to see some comments (even if it's just to explain why things are as they are right now!). :)

Cheers, LT.
 
Mostly idle thoughts, but would be interesting to see some comments (even if it's just to explain why things are as they are right now!). :)

There's nothing I like to do more than talk about Planetfall's design! :D

1) How is the affinity gene treatment calculated? Does it take map size into account? I'm asking because I was playing on a large map and was aiming for Transcendence... and something interesting happened: The FC was at 78, so couldn't switch to Transcendence yet. Then the Affinity Gene treatment... pushed the FC to 102 in one massive swing - which made Transcendence an insta-win. I think that could happen on a normal map as well, especially with Yang's massive population in the late game.

The effect of the resolution comes from a value set in the XML multiplied by the number of cities of the players who support the resolution and then divided by the number of "native habitable" plots. Native habitable meaning plots on which fungus can potentially grow, excluding stuff like Polar terrain and Trenches. Population size of the bases plays no role.

2) Terraforming is fun, I think even Hybrids need some of the fun, but communes come extremely late (so late, that they don't actually do anything useful), sea communes are just about useful. Is there any reason why they are only available so late? And why sea communes are available first? Wouldn't it be more interesting to have them available earlier, but just weaker?

Sea Communes are available when they are to ensure that water plots are as useful as land plots to reach Transcendence. Without Sea Communes water plots would be at a disadvantage when Hybrid Forests enter the scene.

I'm aware that Communes become available so late that they don't actually do anything useful. In fact, that was done on purpose. :D In vanilla civ games I always feel that the end of the tech tree is boring. There's nothing interesting to look forward to, just some spaceship parts and military units. If you don't happen to be aiming for a spaceship or military victory, it leaves you with nothing worthwhile to research. Also many cities will have nothing interesting left to build - they won't all be building spaceship parts.

I feel a good tech tree should always give you content to look forward to. The inevitable result is that some content at the end will not get used a lot. But I still feel it's important that this content exists to maintain the fun value throughout the game.

3) While I have mostly come to terms with the tech tree structure of Planetfall, I still kind of dislike how much it encourages beelining in the Hybrid and the Physics themes - why I'm picking on these two? Because they're both allowing you to win by reaching their end (Transcendence/Interstellar Gate). I feel these two should require some AND prerequisites (or even better: something like [previous tech] AND ([one tech] OR [another tech]). I could see both tech paths to have two "related" tech paths that would fill the OR prerequisites (in other words: to win at Transcendence, you need to research the Hybrid techs and either the medicine/genetics OR the terraform techs and for the gate the Physics techs and either the build or the biosphere/naval/space techs).

Transcendence isn't meant to be a technological victory. Rather than change the tech tree in that area I'd rather opt for tweaking the effects of the Flowering Counter increasing measures if they are currently too effective.

The Interstellar Gate is meant to be a technological victory, or at least broader an economic builder victory, but again before attempting other changes I'd first try to get the non-technological component right: the cost of the Dimensional Gates and Subspace Generator.

4) Being able to skip planting fungus and going straight to hybrid forests is a bit strange. Tying in with 3), it would be interesting to have a more "fungus planting" phase, followed by the "hybrid foresting" phase (for which you need a strong foundation in either the terraform or medicine/genetics techs).

The fungus planting or at least expansion phase is supposed to start with Biofuel and the Bioreactor building. That building increases the frequency of feature expansion. Its value can always be increased if necessary.

Personally I prefer this passive method over active fungus planting by formers. Why? Not-Planet-friendly terrain improvement is fun because it gives you lots of choices. A Planet friendly strategy on the other hand is very monotonous and repetitive: it's forest, then fungus, then Communes all over the place. Little variation. The game is supposed to be a series of interesting choices. Terrain improvement for a Hybrid isn't. That's why I prefer automating terrain improvement for a Hybrid, removing the need for active player attention. It's another reason why I put Communes so late in the game.
 
I don't think I'll be doing any modding of Planetfall before Newyear, so I figured I'd list the few things I've done so far.

. Female Navy Seal by SaibotLieh used for the Spectre spec ab version of the Marine.
. Drop Trooper graphics changed to the Female Sci-Fi Marine by SaibotLieh. The old graphics now serve as the Light spec ab version of the Drop Trooper.
. Female Sci-Fi Spec Ops unit by SaibotLieh used as the Anti-Personnel, Guerilla and Spectre spec ab version of the Drop Trooper.
. The Subsea Trunkline now provides an Engineer specialist slot.
. One of the Consciousness starting techs changed from Social Psych to Renewable Energy.
. The Pirate Sea Colony Pod is now a military unit like all other colony pods. This means it will get a production bonus from Police State, as intended.
 
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