Feedback thread

[The_J]

So, nun hab ich mich mal ordentlich ausgekotzt...

Moderator Action: ...next time, do it in english. This is an english forum, the official language here is english and we wish that everyone here writes it, or provides a translation for it (exceptions for special cases). And btw it doesn't really make sense to talk in german to a person who doesn't speak it himself.
And next time, be helpful and polite. This here is free time and just for fun, no one has to do here anything.


...sorry for the time delay, has been some busy days.

 

[GeoModder]

Could University drones (perhaps with an unique building akin to the Genejack Factory - or even as replacement for that - a Genejack Laboratory) produce beakers? Adding an unique spin to unhappiness works well for Yang (in terms of making things more interesting and varied) and is very flavourful as well.

Interesting idea, I must say.

 

[Maniac]

I imagine it very diffuse and anchored to the bottom (that's why it can't grow in trenches). Lots of long interconnected tendrils and strands forming a large net (a bit like these "neural nets" you see as CGI for brain synapses). All in all something you can pass through if you're careful, but going in with full speed would a) alert native life after some time and b) you'd keep accumulating more and more strands (a bit like moving through a room full of cobwebs).

That's a great vision.

One more thing: That's not directly related to anything, but I feel University is one of the less interesting factions, as it has very static/boring bonuses. When read the faction flavour texts again, I noticed that one aspect of the University is left out completely: Unethical experiments.

Could University drones (perhaps with an unique building akin to the Genejack Factory - or even as replacement for that - a Genejack Laboratory) produce beakers? Adding an unique spin to unhappiness works well for Yang (in terms of making things more interesting and varied) and is very flavourful as well.

Cheers, LT.

That should be possible. I'm in doubt that it would make the University more interesting to play however. Hive Drones are special because they don't eat nutrients. Simply providing science instead of hammers won't have the same effect IMO. It would just be a flavour change.

I personally consider the University a rather boring faction myself for the record. Perhaps in the future the Dimensional Distortion resource could provide much more energy for them, making them more the "Interstellar Gate victory" guys.

 

[Pfeffersack]

1. Does the problem stop if you revert to the original Civ4ArtDefines_Building.xml? Shuffling artdefines in the middle of a game causes problems IIRC. IIRC the game just stores at game start which number in the list of all artdefines a certainn building uses. Lord Tirian added new artdefines for Cybernexus/Core.

Thanks, this was indeed just caused by using the Conscious graphics.

---

I like the idea of University Drones giving science instead of production as well (though I agree too that it is more an issue of flavour)

 

[Lord Tirian]

I personally consider the University a rather boring faction myself for the record.

I've got the same impression - all other factions have a nice "goodie" that makes them unique (even the Peacekeepers, because using Great People is something you can do actively), but the University really lacks one - they play very "vanilla".

Giving extra science through drones alone is probably hardly what makes them interesting (after all, that's just *another* numeric plus to beakers) - I just think using the drone/unethical spin on University might be a good starting point for something interesting.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

In that light, you could also let the research hospital give drones to the University.

 

[malonkey1]

You remember my previuos suggestion of using cfkane's leaderheads? what if that could be used as toggle option?

 

[The_Coyote]

sorry for being OT

I'm using The_Coyote's Skjold class (albeit a bit retextured)

i really like your texture - could you please post a pic? (and the original skin was based on pics like this one)

and btw, your newest city set was a gorgeous job

 

[Lord Tirian]

i really like your texture - could you please post a pic? (and the original skin was based on pics like this one)

Sure, I just have to dig it up... it's been a while since I actually did something for my modmod, so I have to look for the files. (I always make clean installs for new Planetfall patches, so I have to dig through my backup files to find it)

and btw, your newest city set was a gorgeous job

Thanks!

Cheers, LT.

 

[MrPopov]

Why are there no basic roads? Why do we have to wait so long till we can link up resources for happy/healthy benefits?

EDIT: Ok so evidently I didn't look close enough. It seems like resources and cities are linked up by default. That's great!

 

[Maniac]

Yep, it's just like in Civ5 - I'm clairvoyant. Resources just need to be in your territory to be linked to cities.

One warning about cities though: they are not linked by default to your capital. You still need to create a connection. This can be either through a river, through sea (if you have Centauri Hydrology or Doc:Flex), or through a cultural connection. So really, the only difference compared to usual is that a "cultural connection" counts as a "road connection". For purposes of creating a trade network you can imagine that every plot in your territory has a road.

 

[Lord Tirian]

...so a (big) bit of feedback - not necessarily v14 specific, though, more like a couple of observations during the last couple of games:

For me, most factions are pretty good now and have a well-defined niche - though two stand out as a bit less interesting to play (to me, at least): the Believers and the University.

My issue with the Believers is two-fold: They're a bit of a hodge-podge of abilites and the AI tends to play them rather poorly, in my experience. I think, one change could help them a bit: replacing the +1 happiness by +2 influence. Let me explain why:

• IME, the AI (see e.g. vanilla Catherine) is rather adept at using culture bonuses, I think this would help the AI with playing the Believers a bit better
• It fits with overall feel of the Believers: aggressive expansion - an influence bonus represents (flavour-wise) the idea of Manifest Destiny quite well and helps them (gameplay-wise) to consolidate the area around conquered bases.
• At least a +1 influence is required to offset the early loss of influence; most AIs (and humans) tend to have a positive PA for at least the early game (due to settling near fungus), giving them positive influence early on - Believers lose out on one point on average due to their -1 planet value penalty
• The Terraform tech tree has a couple of culture boosting buildings already - this would only mean they synergise more with their theme - a good thing, I think

Next: the University. Bland-ville. They're a faction that is very well-played by the AI, but ultimately an utterly boring faction, in my opinion. So a couple of suggestions (using all of them would, of course, be overkill, I'm just hoping that one of them might be good):

• Earlier, I made the suggestion of giving bonuses to drones - I think this would make a better unique version of the Research Hospital -> Trial Hospital (+1 beaker per drone, perhaps +1 great scientist point as well? might be too good, though); unique buildings contribute a lot to the feel of a faction, I think
• Something I noticed about Zak in his bio was that he was a "combat engineer" - this might be something to include: give university units non-infantry units +1 spec ab. Sort of representing that every unit is a bit of an experiment/prototype and is interesting. About the balance - the extra maintenance cost from the spec ab should partially do that - a build cost increase (prototypes, after all) might work in conjunction with it; all in all, this should lead towards building a smaller, but advanced/well-equipped force - that's how the university should roll!
• Give them a free Great Scientist at the start of the game - that's a very powerful short-term advantage, though, but would definitely be something enticing
• ...or at least have the HQ produce +2 Great Scientist points; University should be the one faction that gets them a bit more often (though that might step on the PK's toes a bit)
• Give them a +1 beaker OR GP bonus to field labs - or just alien artifacts only... idea is that they *really* like studying everything they can find!

Some more general remarks:

• Don't like the name of the accuracy special ability at all - it's rather misleading, I think (bombarding general defenses and... accuracy?). And considering how vital it can be to actually bombard cities properly, I'd suggest a name that makes that function obvious. Suggestions: siege guns/weaponry, siegecraft, heavy artillery (SMAC name), explosive shells (the least suggestive one, though - sounds a bit more like a collateral spec ab).
• "Anti-Personnel", "anti-tank" and "skirmisher" are a bit boring, compared to the more evocative things like "AAA Tracking", "ECM", etc. Some possible alternative suggestions:

1. Anti-personnel: shredder guns, sonic hammer (both from the journey story), sonic inhibitor (the vision I have of sonic weapons is that even with helmets etc., people are probably susceptible to vibrations/sound waves... while machinery isn't)
2. Anti-tank: armour-piercing rounds, heavy weapons, grenade launcher(s) (my favourite)
3. Skirmisher: neural graft (skirmisher is definitely one of the better names, but I like the "neural grafting" tech in SMAC and it would be nice to see the name as homage somewhere; having a crew equipped with neural grafts (and fits the preq tech, too!) would explain rather flavourfully, how it works - they "see" with the vehicles sensors!

• Finally, I think the thunderbolt is quite a bit better than the interceptor - collateral damage is more than worth the loss of one square of range. If you'd decrease the interception chance of the thunderbolt to 75%, it would make the interceptor really "the" interceptor (until, of course, the penetrator comes along, though I'd almost say switching the names of the thunderbolt and penetrator would make a lot of sense, too, especially if you implement the decreased interception chance)
• The precision/psychic terror spec ab/promo is pretty cool - and I like that it is very limited... but it might be a nifty idea to have one-missiles with that ability (separately from the thermobaric missile, though, because it might mess up the targeting of fungal towers )
• After having played (too) many Civ5, I think a embarkation-like spec ab might be interesting - allowing land units to travel on water outside your borders (with the usual penalty of being very fragile and unable to attack, of course). Means you have the choice between transports (which are better defended and allow more spec abs on your main force) or embarked units (which are more flexible).

As usual, suggestions only, feel free to ignore it!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Some feedback-feedback

...so a (big) bit of feedback - not necessarily v14 specific, though, more like a couple of observations during the last couple of games:

For me, most factions are pretty good now and have a well-defined niche - though two stand out as a bit less interesting to play (to me, at least): the Believers and the University.

I share that feeling.

My issue with the Believers is two-fold: They're a bit of a hodge-podge of abilites and the AI tends to play them rather poorly, in my experience. I think, one change could help them a bit: replacing the +1 happiness by +2 influence. Let me explain why:

• IME, the AI (see e.g. vanilla Catherine) is rather adept at using culture bonuses, I think this would help the AI with playing the Believers a bit better
• It fits with overall feel of the Believers: aggressive expansion - an influence bonus represents (flavour-wise) the idea of Manifest Destiny quite well and helps them (gameplay-wise) to consolidate the area around conquered bases.
• At least a +1 influence is required to offset the early loss of influence; most AIs (and humans) tend to have a positive PA for at least the early game (due to settling near fungus), giving them positive influence early on - Believers lose out on one point on average due to their -1 planet value penalty
• The Terraform tech tree has a couple of culture boosting buildings already - this would only mean they synergise more with their theme - a good thing, I think

I would support that change, though I would even go that far and put it on top of the happiness bonus (and not as replacement). The Believers could need a boost, not only in the hands of the AI - they don't feel overpowered in any way in the hands of the human as well 8while most other factions have their niche, where they are superior)
Next: the University. Bland-ville. They're a faction that is very well-played by the AI, but ultimately an utterly boring faction, in my opinion. So a couple of suggestions (using all of them would, of course, be overkill, I'm just hoping that one of them might be good):

Next: the University. Bland-ville. They're a faction that is very well-played by the AI, but ultimately an utterly boring faction, in my opinion. So a couple of suggestions (using all of them would, of course, be overkill, I'm just hoping that one of them might be good):

While I agree with the need for change as said above, I very wary of any form of addiotional bonus. University is rather boring (because their strength lies in a well-known mechanism, which drives entire Civ4 too much anyway - accumulating tech, to a large part by trading), but by no means weak. Not in the hands of the AI, not in the hands of the human... So if boni are added, penalties need to come with them.

[*]Earlier, I made the suggestion of giving bonuses to drones - I think this would make a better unique version of the Research Hospital -> Trial Hospital (+1 beaker per drone, perhaps +1 great scientist point as well? might be too good, though); unique buildings contribute a lot to the feel of a faction, I think

Like the idea, but the beaker(s) should replace minerals then completetly - you can't have both.

[*]Something I noticed about Zak in his bio was that he was a "combat engineer" - this might be something to include: give university units non-infantry units +1 spec ab. Sort of representing that every unit is a bit of an experiment/prototype and is interesting. About the balance - the extra maintenance cost from the spec ab should partially do that - a build cost increase (prototypes, after all) might work in conjunction with it; all in all, this should lead towards building a smaller, but advanced/well-equipped force - that's how the university should roll!

Don't like that. Too strong, too similar to the Spartans (well equipped troops), evenif it is tied to vehicles here. The University has superior tech anyway, no need to overpower them even more

[*]Give them a free Great Scientist at the start of the game - that's a very powerful short-term advantage, though, but would definitely be something enticing

Isn't that the starting bonus of the SMAX factions to get a free GP of "their" type?

[*]...or at least have the HQ produce +2 Great Scientist points; University should be the one faction that gets them a bit more often (though that might step on the PK's toes a bit)

Flavorwise debatable, but again please no more boni without counterweight

[*]Give them a +1 beaker OR GP bonus to field labs - or just alien artifacts only... idea is that they *really* like studying everything they can find!

Nice idea, but again...

I would rather do a brainstorming about some penalties first - what about a general health and happiness malus attached to each research facility? Then some research benefits out of them could be justified...

[*]Don't like the name of the accuracy special ability at all - it's rather misleading, I think (bombarding general defenses and... accuracy?). And considering how vital it can be to actually bombard cities properly, I'd suggest a name that makes that function obvious. Suggestions: siege guns/weaponry, siegecraft, heavy artillery (SMAC name), explosive shells (the least suggestive one, though - sounds a bit more like a collateral spec ab).
[*]"Anti-Personnel", "anti-tank" and "skirmisher" are a bit boring, compared to the more evocative things like "AAA Tracking", "ECM", etc. Some possible alternative suggestions:[/LIST]

1. Anti-personnel: shredder guns, sonic hammer (both from the journey story), sonic inhibitor (the vision I have of sonic weapons is that even with helmets etc., people are probably susceptible to vibrations/sound waves... while machinery isn't)
2. Anti-tank: armour-piercing rounds, heavy weapons, grenade launcher(s) (my favourite)
3. Skirmisher: neural graft (skirmisher is definitely one of the better names, but I like the "neural grafting" tech in SMAC and it would be nice to see the name as homage somewhere; having a crew equipped with neural grafts (and fits the preq tech, too!) would explain rather flavourfully, how it works - they "see" with the vehicles sensors!

 

[Maniac]

My issue with the Believers is two-fold: They're a bit of a hodge-podge of abilites and the AI tends to play them rather poorly, in my experience. I think, one change could help them a bit: replacing the +1 happiness by +2 influence.

Free culture in each base is supposed to be a benefit of the positive Planet Attitude factions. Do we really want the Believers to play more rather than less similar to pro-Planet players??

Culture is indeed supposed to be one of their things though. How about mixing up two Civ5 concepts: Believer culture gets accumulated on player level and once you reach a certain threshold you get a golden age? The hard part to code for me would be the interface showing somewhere how much your golden age box has filled up.

[*]Something I noticed about Zak in his bio was that he was a "combat engineer"[/quote]

Yeah, originally Firaxis gave that faction +2 Support. And their faction icon was the tool used for the Scavenger spec ab button.

this should lead towards building a smaller, but advanced/well-equipped force - that's how the university should roll!

As Pfeffersack said, that's stepping on Spartan toes. Perhaps something more limited? A free Field Repair "march" promo for Artillery units only? That unit line is enabled on their tech tree Physics theme after all.

Don't like the name of the accuracy special ability at all - it's rather misleading, I think (bombarding general defenses and... accuracy?). And considering how vital it can be to actually bombard cities properly, I'd suggest a name that makes that function obvious. Suggestions: siege guns/weaponry, siegecraft, heavy artillery (SMAC name), explosive shells (the least suggestive one, though - sounds a bit more like a collateral spec ab).

I wouldn't mind Heavy Artillery. However the Planetfall equivalent of SMAC Heavy Artillery would actually be Range I + II, and as a consequence such a renaming could actually be more misleading. Do you still prefer to rename Accuracy to Heavy Artillery despite this?

1. Anti-personnel: Krios guns, sonic hammer , sonic inhibitor
2. Anti-tank: Garrus' ammo rounds, heavy weapons, M-100 grenade launcher(s) (my favourite)
3. Skirmisher: neural graft (skirmisher is definitely one of the better names, but I like the "neural grafting" tech in SMAC and it would be nice to see the name as homage somewhere; having a crew equipped with neural grafts (and fits the preq tech, too!) would explain rather flavourfully, how it works - they "see" with the vehicles sensors!

The problem with these names is that they only make sense for infantry units as far as I can tell. These spec ab names need to fit for Infantry, Artillery, Choppers and Skirmisher for Submarines (though the name Skirmisher doesn't fit all that much for Subs either...). Shredder guns don't make much sense on tanks as far as I can tell. Does Sonic X on tanks and choppers? I can't really imagine how such a weapon would look. Perhaps Sonic X could be enabled by Social Psych, you know, since it affects human performance. A bit a stretch I guess.

Anti-Tank: perhaps another option is U-235 Shells. I guess that fits for all unitcombattypes. Plus then I can let that spec ab be enabled by Nuclear Physics.

Neural Graft fits for chopper pilots I think, but not really for submarines with its large crew.

Finally, I think the thunderbolt is quite a bit better than the interceptor - collateral damage is more than worth the loss of one square of range. If you'd decrease the interception chance of the thunderbolt to 75%, it would make the interceptor really "the" interceptor

Okay.

The precision/psychic terror spec ab/promo is pretty cool - and I like that it is very limited... but it might be a nifty idea to have one-missiles with that ability (separately from the thermobaric missile, though, because it might mess up the targeting of fungal towers )

Rather than a new unit, why not let the thermobaric missile choose it as a spec ab? Then there should be at least two other spec abs though to make the choice more interesting. Fuel Nanocells and Barrage could fit. Would you be interested in making a spec ab button of Barrage I?

After having played (too) many Civ5, I think a embarkation-like spec ab might be interesting - allowing land units to travel on water outside your borders (with the usual penalty of being very fragile and unable to attack, of course). Means you have the choice between transports (which are better defended and allow more spec abs on your main force) or embarked units (which are more flexible).

The AI wouldn't know it should escort its embarked units when going into enemy history. Would require a lot of code to make that work for the AI.

While I agree with the need for change as said above, I very wary of any form of addiotional bonus. University is rather boring (because their strength lies in a well-known mechanism, which drives entire Civ4 too much anyway - accumulating tech, to a large part by trading), but by no means weak. Not in the hands of the AI, not in the hands of the human... So if boni are added, penalties need to come with them.

Perhaps, instead of Drones, technician specialists get +4 science from the Genejack Factories (doesn't require new SDK code, less work), but they cause the same revolt chance as drones do. Though that's still more flavour than a real gameplay chance, as you can avoid technician specialists like you can drones.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Believer culture gets accumulated on player level and once you reach a certain threshold you get a golden age? The hard part to code for me would be the interface showing somewhere how much your golden age box has filled up.

That's actually a quite cool and unique spin on the Believer's culture theme without stepping on the Hybrid's toes - I like that a lot! Interface-wise: perhaps as part of the tooltip widget for the culture slider and the culture bar in cities?

As Pfeffersack said, that's stepping on Spartan toes. Perhaps something more limited? A free Field Repair "march" promo for Artillery units only? That unit line is enabled on their tech tree Physics theme after all.

Like this one, too - especially since it, as you say, ties into the "science-y" tech tree.

Do you still prefer to rename Accuracy to Heavy Artillery despite this?

Hmmm... have to ask Pfeffersack/GeoModder/anybody else, since I made the suggestion.

Shredder guns don't make much sense on tanks as far as I can tell.

True, I mostly thought of it because they were used in the "Journey to Centauri" story on the Unity and having them available so soon after landing on the Planet would tie in neatly - but then, the story only involved humans in close range... makes probably as much sense as a "shotgun tank" (meaning none)

Does Sonic X on tanks and choppers? I can't really imagine how such a weapon would look.

For the "inhibitor": I'd imagine a bit like phased array radars - but now you're saying it, I have a hard time imagining its use as anything but direct fire weapon - i.e. making it odd if the unit has ranged strikes.

For the "hammer": in the journey story, the "sonic hammer" was some kind of small explosive device - sonic stuff just sounds like it might have extra effectiveness against people (while acting as a normal explosive against vehicles).

Anti-Tank: perhaps another option is U-235 Shells. I guess that fits for all unitcombattypes. Plus then I can let that spec ab be enabled by Nuclear Physics.

Like it.

Neural Graft fits for chopper pilots I think, but not really for submarines with its large crew.

*shrug* I could envision a person hooked-up to the ship like Fleet Command in Homeworld, more of a stretch, though.

Rather than a new unit, why not let the thermobaric missile choose it as a spec ab? Then there should be at least two other spec abs though to make the choice more interesting. Fuel Nanocells and Barrage could fit. Would you be interested in making a spec ab button of Barrage I?

Sounds a lot more interesting than a new unit, spec abs are cool - will make a button (I should have a bit free time tomorrow - can't do it today though)!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Humakty]

I'm playing v14b (svensgaard), and I have permanent blockade around my capital, while no units are here anymore to enforce it.

Is this a known thing, or do I provide the save ?

 

[Pfeffersack]

I'm playing v14b (svensgaard), and I have permanent blockade around my capital, while no units are here anymore to enforce it.

Is this a known thing, or do I provide the save ?

Never heard of that; a save would be surely needed for Maniac to look into the problem.

Edit: I tested myself with 14b and Svensgaard start, no problem for me. Maybe you have selected the coastal fortress you start with in your capital base ? It shows a grid around the base as well, but that's not blockaded - just shows the fire range.

 

[Maniac]

Even more, I'd need a save (or saves) just prior to units causing the blockade being killed.

 

[Humakty]

I haven't got any saves prior to the initial cleansing : as I was surrounded by planet lifeforms, I didn't explore immediately after cleansing initial lifeforms, and I do 1 autosave every turn (5 max).
I was thinking some other blockaders were sitting in the fog.... but there are no units in the blockaded sea zone except mine presently.

So sorry I couldn't provide more help, I'm gonna change autosave preferences.

EDIT : here are two saves from another svensgaard game.

 

[Humakty]

*bump*