Bill Bisco
Callous Calling
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- Apr 28, 2007
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- 590
Remember that Sheiam start with Ancient Chants. So I might start by going Agriculture, I would definitely get Mysticism very quick for GodKing and Elder Councils.
Feel Like Helping Me Destroy the World?
- Thread starter AsmodeusUltima
- Start date
i would settle back were you started so that you get to put an inprovment on the pigs, but im still playing on noble too so dont listen to me toooooooooo much
[or at all for that matter
]AsmodeusUltima
Chieftain
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- Sep 18, 2009
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- 17
Alright, played the first round, things are going alright. Now on turn 53.
Settled on the plains hill for the extra production on turn 2. Built Worker, Warrior, Scout, Warrior, Warrior, Settler. Also popped a Warrior from a hut early on and sent him to go guard the city. Started teching Agriculture on turn 2, popped it from a goodie hut on turn 3, then teched Animal Handling, Calendar, Crafting, now working on Mining. I usually never wait this long for Exploration. Should I do that one next so I can connect the Cotton and Wine and increase my happy cap?
On turn 16 I got a message that Hannah the Irin had been wiped out. And before Orthus even! One less civ standing between me and the end of the world. Then this happened on turn 32:
Uh oh, that is rather close. Maybe he can be useful as a buffer.
Turn 36 I switched to Agrarianism, then on 37 my scout ran into:
Could be useful as minions if I spread AV to them quickly. Sometime after that I lost both my scouts, one to a bear and the other to a lizardman. Oh well, they served their purpose. Finally on turn 52 someone else found me:
Pointy eared gits. They will have to go...
Alright so here is the lay of the land as it stands now:
North
South
Southwest
Around the capitol
And the Capitol itself
Damn skeletons are spawning like mad, standing on my wine and cattle.
So the big question is where to settle the second city? My instinct says SE to grab the other wine, ivory, and the Pyre along with some flood plain tiles, plus it would be on another plains hill. Please let me know what you think!
Settled on the plains hill for the extra production on turn 2. Built Worker, Warrior, Scout, Warrior, Warrior, Settler. Also popped a Warrior from a hut early on and sent him to go guard the city. Started teching Agriculture on turn 2, popped it from a goodie hut on turn 3, then teched Animal Handling, Calendar, Crafting, now working on Mining. I usually never wait this long for Exploration. Should I do that one next so I can connect the Cotton and Wine and increase my happy cap?
On turn 16 I got a message that Hannah the Irin had been wiped out. And before Orthus even! One less civ standing between me and the end of the world. Then this happened on turn 32:
Uh oh, that is rather close. Maybe he can be useful as a buffer.
Turn 36 I switched to Agrarianism, then on 37 my scout ran into:
Could be useful as minions if I spread AV to them quickly. Sometime after that I lost both my scouts, one to a bear and the other to a lizardman. Oh well, they served their purpose. Finally on turn 52 someone else found me:
Pointy eared gits. They will have to go...
Alright so here is the lay of the land as it stands now:
North
South
Southwest
Around the capitol
And the Capitol itself
Damn skeletons are spawning like mad, standing on my wine and cattle.
So the big question is where to settle the second city? My instinct says SE to grab the other wine, ivory, and the Pyre along with some flood plain tiles, plus it would be on another plains hill. Please let me know what you think!
Emptiness
[]
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You may have bigger problems than deciding where to place your second city. This:
... probably means that a Wrath has been popped out of a lair by the AI. Strength 6 + 3 (death), with Fear. It is going to run around butchering civs until it eventually gets to you. If you don't have Pyre Zombies (immune to death damage, immune to fear, causes collateral damage when defeated) by then, you will probably die. The other alternative is to try building a huge stack of defenders and hope that the Wraith will run out of health before you run out of units. This has a chance to work, unless the Wraith has picked up the Drill promotions before it gets to you.
Of course there's a chance that another civ defeated Hannah, but that seems unlikely to me.
Edit: It has been 21 turns since Acheron was built. I'd expect a Wraith to move on at that point, if not sooner. So maybe it wasn't a Wraith but rather just some lucky orc warrior. There's probably not much point to worrying about it, unless other civs suddenly start dying off.
I would say the spot 2N of the Pyre is a good spot for your second city. You should probably scout out the area due south of the capitol.
cabbagemeister
Please wait...
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- Jun 26, 2008
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- 517
I would settle 1N of the Pyre. You get Wines, Ivory, 4 flood plains, and 5 plains hills. That will be a monstrous production city.
Onionsoilder
Reaver
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- Mar 19, 2007
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- 3,173
I can't see the whole map, but from what I can see I would settle 2 S of the Incense. Plenty of flatland for farms and as I mentioned earlier, incense. Incense is a very valuable resource, do not underestimate it. At this point in the game, it will increase your research by 30%. Commerce is currently more valuable then production.
I would put off Exploration a while longer. You already have a route to the cotton, so all you would get is the wine. You don't need to increase your happy cap that much at this point in the game. Instead, go for Education, then settle your third city 1N of the Pyre, cottaging the floodplains.
I would put off Exploration a while longer. You already have a route to the cotton, so all you would get is the wine. You don't need to increase your happy cap that much at this point in the game. Instead, go for Education, then settle your third city 1N of the Pyre, cottaging the floodplains.
i'd scout a bit further south, to see if you can fit 2 cities on those floodplains. If yes, settle 2N of the pyre (grabbing another workable incense) while leaving the other FPs to a future city. If no, settle 1N of the pyre to maximize the one city you can get in that area
Bill Bisco
Callous Calling
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- Apr 28, 2007
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- 590
Can you upload the turn 1 save? I'd like to try this game for myself.
Doug Piranha
Warlord
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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That's (no offense meant to Doug) almost as terrible an idea as researching AH second. You don't need strength-4 units so soon unless you're going to be attacked by a Wraith (assume not) or are going to rush someone (no). The only disadvantage is that if you start seeing Orcs and have to attack them to keep them from pillaging, you'll lose some Warriors. That's OK. Warriors are still overpoweredly cheap. Get your economy in shape by researching Exploration, Mysticism, and Festivals before BW.
Senethro
Overlord
Education. You can't afford not to have it.
One thing to start thinking about is the resources that are tied to religions. If you're going for OO or (!Order), you'll be able to get incense and you'll be fine, but in order to really destroy the world, you want to eventually go AV, and for that, you need reagents. I don't see them on the screens you've posted. Keep an eye out for them, and if someone else has them, you might want to make them your first victim.
AsmodeusUltima
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2009
- Messages
- 17
Played another round. I am not nearly as happy with this one, mostly because the barbs have been causing me a lot of trouble. I have seen them send less units on Raging!
Research was Mining, Mysticism (figured this would help the economy even if my workers are being pinned down by barbs), Exploration, Festivals. I was planning on hitting Education next, then probably Bronze Working, then Writing, and then go for founding AV. Sound good?
Production was a worker, a whole lot of warriors to deal with the barbs, a few scouts, another settler, and just started on an Elder Council in the capitol. Grottiburg started with a Monument and then went to work on a Warrior while it grows.
Anyhow, I ended up having to delay sending my settler because of the huge number of skeletons and lizardmen encroaching. Finally got him over to found Grottiburg on turn 72 1N of the Pyre. That same turn I adopted God King.
Turn 84 I met my neighbors to the south:
Hmm... he could go either way. Then Orthus appeared and I thought I was in trouble because he went straight for Grottiburg. I was thankful for the hill defense bonus though, as he only managed to kill one warrior before dying to the second on turn 89. Rosier with Orthus' axe sound good to everyone?
Finally on turn 93 I finished my new settler, time to choose a location for city 3.
North:
West:
I think that Barbarian city in the far west is Acheron's home by the way. Have not yet got a scout close enough to confirm for certain, but looks to be in the right spot.
East:
I was thinking of two potential places for the city. Either here:
or here:
The first one for the incense, reagents, and mana node, the second for incense and copper. Neither one will be able to grow very big due to lack of food, though that second could at least be helped out if I build a water node at some point. Thoughts?
Here are my cities at this juncture:
And sorry Bill, I did not think to keep a turn 1 save. I was fooling around with a quick Clan game last night so the autosave was overwritten. I will attach the current save in case you are interested though...
Research was Mining, Mysticism (figured this would help the economy even if my workers are being pinned down by barbs), Exploration, Festivals. I was planning on hitting Education next, then probably Bronze Working, then Writing, and then go for founding AV. Sound good?
Production was a worker, a whole lot of warriors to deal with the barbs, a few scouts, another settler, and just started on an Elder Council in the capitol. Grottiburg started with a Monument and then went to work on a Warrior while it grows.
Anyhow, I ended up having to delay sending my settler because of the huge number of skeletons and lizardmen encroaching. Finally got him over to found Grottiburg on turn 72 1N of the Pyre. That same turn I adopted God King.
Turn 84 I met my neighbors to the south:
Hmm... he could go either way. Then Orthus appeared and I thought I was in trouble because he went straight for Grottiburg. I was thankful for the hill defense bonus though, as he only managed to kill one warrior before dying to the second on turn 89. Rosier with Orthus' axe sound good to everyone?
Finally on turn 93 I finished my new settler, time to choose a location for city 3.
North:
West:
I think that Barbarian city in the far west is Acheron's home by the way. Have not yet got a scout close enough to confirm for certain, but looks to be in the right spot.
East:
I was thinking of two potential places for the city. Either here:
or here:
The first one for the incense, reagents, and mana node, the second for incense and copper. Neither one will be able to grow very big due to lack of food, though that second could at least be helped out if I build a water node at some point. Thoughts?
Here are my cities at this juncture:
And sorry Bill, I did not think to keep a turn 1 save. I was fooling around with a quick Clan game last night so the autosave was overwritten. I will attach the current save in case you are interested though...
cabbagemeister
Please wait...
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- Jun 26, 2008
- Messages
- 517
Your proposed southern city spot has very little flatland, and what's there is mostly plains (not as valuable because you'll want to run Agrarianism). I'd settle 1N of the reagents instead. It gets a little overlap with the capitol, but that's not a big deal. It also misses the mana, but mana in your big cross eighty-odd turns before you can improve it isn't valuable anyway.
That northern copper is in a really unfortunate place; there's just no really good spot for a city there that I can see. I'd place the city 1S of the copper. With the mushrooms, it will have enough food to grow to size 3 and work the shrooms, copper, and incense. It'll never be a strong city, but the incense will let it pay for itself and the copper will give it decent production.
I can't be certain, but from the screenies I'd say it looks like you're not fogbusting enough. This is likely the biggest reason you're having so many barbarian problems. Barbarian spawn rates in FFH are really high, so it's very important to get those sentries out there--preferably in groups of 2 so that one can fortify while the other heals after a battle. It may seem like you're having to make too many warriors for this stage of the game, but there's really no such thing. Don't be afraid to have your build queues look like "warrior->warrior->warrior->warrior->warrior"!
Finally, I wonder why you're building an elder council at this stage. If your barb problems are really serious, you should stick to warriors. If they're not, why are you building a warrior in Grottiburg? Grottiburg desperately needs 1) a monument, and 2) improved tiles to work. Actually, your capitol also has unimproved tiles (you're working 2 unmined hills). I'd suggest a monument in Grottiburg and 2-3 workers in Galveholm (they should build really fast with all of those pastures).
That northern copper is in a really unfortunate place; there's just no really good spot for a city there that I can see. I'd place the city 1S of the copper. With the mushrooms, it will have enough food to grow to size 3 and work the shrooms, copper, and incense. It'll never be a strong city, but the incense will let it pay for itself and the copper will give it decent production.
I can't be certain, but from the screenies I'd say it looks like you're not fogbusting enough. This is likely the biggest reason you're having so many barbarian problems. Barbarian spawn rates in FFH are really high, so it's very important to get those sentries out there--preferably in groups of 2 so that one can fortify while the other heals after a battle. It may seem like you're having to make too many warriors for this stage of the game, but there's really no such thing. Don't be afraid to have your build queues look like "warrior->warrior->warrior->warrior->warrior"!
Finally, I wonder why you're building an elder council at this stage. If your barb problems are really serious, you should stick to warriors. If they're not, why are you building a warrior in Grottiburg? Grottiburg desperately needs 1) a monument, and 2) improved tiles to work. Actually, your capitol also has unimproved tiles (you're working 2 unmined hills). I'd suggest a monument in Grottiburg and 2-3 workers in Galveholm (they should build really fast with all of those pastures).
Onionsoilder
Reaver
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- Mar 19, 2007
- Messages
- 3,173
Go for the first one, but settle 1 N of the reagents. It's by a river, which means you get a health bonus, and it's also easy to irrigate. The second has no way to build farms unless you chain-irrigate, which would only give you one plains farm anyway.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
I like 1S of the Copper too. But I think 1W of the Copper might be worth giving up the Incense. It starts strong and can (with +2F farms) get to size 10 with 3 farms, mushrooms, 2 cottages and 5 mines. But if you settle by the Copper I suggest BW instead of Education. The +1 strength is better than Apprenticeship and you get it on existing units, and you don't need (nor have spare population) to work any cottages now. On the other hand I approve of both an Elder Council and Market in the capital, along with at least 1 specialist, preferably 2, because early great people are cheap and powerful. For that reason I also suggest adopting Pacifism with Apprenticeship, if you're not already in it.
Since you're the Sheaim and apparently doing well in tech I think you're unlikely to lose the race to the AV holy city. I think researching Corruption of the Spirit is mostly a matter of when you want to get around to it. You could do it sooner if you really feel like a war with Pyre Zombies and Ritualists - but even for that I think you're probably more limited by production. Techs to consider before Corruption of the Spirit are
* Warfare (for Form of the Titan with Copper, if Orthus got you to or close to L6)
* Military Strategy (for the Commander, if you're going to research Warfare anyway)
* Drama (for a Bard to bulb Sanitation)
* COL (if you get enough cities to make switching to Aristocracy desirable)
* Writing (for a Library if your slider stays high and/or if you haven't popped a Great Scientist yet)
On the other hand, you should make sure you don't lose the Prophecy of Ragnarok. I'm not sure about on Monarch, but a strong evil AI like Keelyn can build it before you if you procrastinate it.
Since you're the Sheaim and apparently doing well in tech I think you're unlikely to lose the race to the AV holy city. I think researching Corruption of the Spirit is mostly a matter of when you want to get around to it. You could do it sooner if you really feel like a war with Pyre Zombies and Ritualists - but even for that I think you're probably more limited by production. Techs to consider before Corruption of the Spirit are
* Warfare (for Form of the Titan with Copper, if Orthus got you to or close to L6)
* Military Strategy (for the Commander, if you're going to research Warfare anyway)
* Drama (for a Bard to bulb Sanitation)
* COL (if you get enough cities to make switching to Aristocracy desirable)
* Writing (for a Library if your slider stays high and/or if you haven't popped a Great Scientist yet)
On the other hand, you should make sure you don't lose the Prophecy of Ragnarok. I'm not sure about on Monarch, but a strong evil AI like Keelyn can build it before you if you procrastinate it.
Emptiness
[]
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- 1,922
Getting Bronze weapons should be a priority, especially since the barbarians are frustrating you. Your third city should be positioned to link up copper quickly.
Education and Bronze Working should be your next techs. Education first gives you Apprenticeship and Cottages, Bronze Working first gives you Bronze weapons and Pyre Zombies. If you are working tiles that need cottages now, and have workers available to cottage them, then research Education. If you won't be able to cottage tiles for a while anyway (workers busy elsewhere, no cottage-target tiles being worked) then get Bronze Working next.
Your general direction of expansion should be to the south, into Decius' teeth. Crowd him out of city spots where you can, and then build an army and take his cities for yourself. An opportunity to kill off the Calabim before they cast their world spell shouldn't be dismissed. I know the copper is to the north, but Bronze weapons is worth deviating from my "expand south" recommendation.
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I just wanted to add a recommendation for dealing with the barbarians in the short-term. Position some stacks of Warriors inside your borders where encroaching barbarians will likely attack them before reaching your improvements. Any barbarians that pass them by can be counterattacked, but I find that it's best to give barbarians the opportunity to die at long odds first. Three likely spots I see are the forests 2NW and 2SW of the capitol, and on the Mushrooms north (you don't want those to be pillaged). As cabbagemeister suggested be sure to put at least 2 Warriors in each position, so that an injured Warrior will have protection while healing. I assume that relatively few barbarians are arriving from the SE because of the presence of the Calabim in that region.
1S of the copper is desert, and will leave the city with a defense penalty. 1W is a better choice.
Education and Bronze Working should be your next techs. Education first gives you Apprenticeship and Cottages, Bronze Working first gives you Bronze weapons and Pyre Zombies. If you are working tiles that need cottages now, and have workers available to cottage them, then research Education. If you won't be able to cottage tiles for a while anyway (workers busy elsewhere, no cottage-target tiles being worked) then get Bronze Working next.
Your general direction of expansion should be to the south, into Decius' teeth. Crowd him out of city spots where you can, and then build an army and take his cities for yourself. An opportunity to kill off the Calabim before they cast their world spell shouldn't be dismissed. I know the copper is to the north, but Bronze weapons is worth deviating from my "expand south" recommendation.
I agree with this. That should be your fourth city.
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I just wanted to add a recommendation for dealing with the barbarians in the short-term. Position some stacks of Warriors inside your borders where encroaching barbarians will likely attack them before reaching your improvements. Any barbarians that pass them by can be counterattacked, but I find that it's best to give barbarians the opportunity to die at long odds first. Three likely spots I see are the forests 2NW and 2SW of the capitol, and on the Mushrooms north (you don't want those to be pillaged). As cabbagemeister suggested be sure to put at least 2 Warriors in each position, so that an injured Warrior will have protection while healing. I assume that relatively few barbarians are arriving from the SE because of the presence of the Calabim in that region.
AsmodeusUltima
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2009
- Messages
- 17
Hmm... fogbusting. I knew there was something I was forgetting...
Actually the barbarian hordes have been fended off for the moment. Only a lone warrior is in my territory, currently perched on the NW cotton. It took a great many warriors of my own to kill all those skeletons, lizardmen, warriors, and poison-using goblins though!
I know I have a lot of unworked tiles as of yet. My workers were having to cower in the city for a long while with the stacks of barbs running around. Now that they have been dealt with I plan on improving like mad. I had Galveholm working on the elder council real quick to start working on popping a great sage, and from there was thinking about maybe a market and then going back to more warriors, workers, and settlers. Grottiburg has already built a monument, but was still only size 2 when it was finished so I had it start on a warrior while its population grew a bit more. I will be sending one of my workers over to farm that flood plain ASAP!
1W of copper then 1N of reagents. Check! Crowd out and kill off the Calabim, check! If I fail to do that though I think it will be hilarious to most of his land turn to Burning Sands later...
I think I am going to tech Bronze Working, Education, Writing, then see where I wish to go from there. Anyhow it is late and I will play the next round some time tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice, I am already learning valuable lessons in city placement and tech order!
Actually the barbarian hordes have been fended off for the moment. Only a lone warrior is in my territory, currently perched on the NW cotton. It took a great many warriors of my own to kill all those skeletons, lizardmen, warriors, and poison-using goblins though!
I know I have a lot of unworked tiles as of yet. My workers were having to cower in the city for a long while with the stacks of barbs running around. Now that they have been dealt with I plan on improving like mad. I had Galveholm working on the elder council real quick to start working on popping a great sage, and from there was thinking about maybe a market and then going back to more warriors, workers, and settlers. Grottiburg has already built a monument, but was still only size 2 when it was finished so I had it start on a warrior while its population grew a bit more. I will be sending one of my workers over to farm that flood plain ASAP!
1W of copper then 1N of reagents. Check! Crowd out and kill off the Calabim, check! If I fail to do that though I think it will be hilarious to most of his land turn to Burning Sands later...
I think I am going to tech Bronze Working, Education, Writing, then see where I wish to go from there. Anyhow it is late and I will play the next round some time tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice, I am already learning valuable lessons in city placement and tech order!
Doug Piranha
Warlord
You're a long way from needing reagents. The third city *must* hook up bronze, but I'd try to squeeze the fourth and fifth into that huge floodplain between you and Decius: one due south of your current floodplain city (where it can work the gold), and a second between them and to the east. This won't give you much production, but will give a lot of food and commerce. Next, concentrate on production cities, crank out pyre zombies, and wipe out Decius.
