Feel Like Helping Me Destroy the World?

[Senethro]

Multiple manas give free promotions. Going from Adept Lvl 1 --> Mage 4 involves 5 promotions. Its better if these are Mobility, Spell Extension, Combat III than having to drop two in favour of Death promotions.

Free promotions from multiple mana sources are applied at unit creation and unit upgrade. This means he needs to have one Death node to get free Death I on his Adepts, and will need 2 Death nodes before he starts upgrading them into Mages.

I'm working on the idea that he'll be wanting to spam Adepts right now, because the sooner they're built the sooner they'll be Mages.

This looks like a conquest victory to me and given the number of players and that they're going to be limited to small empires, I don't get why people are talking in terms of peace and making long term plans. I think that 3 stacks of SpectreSpammers and Pyre zombies will be all thats needed, one for each largish enemy thats just sent off as soon as its built. Maybe research Feudalism so that they can vassalise and bring about victory faster.

 

[UncleJJ]

I was under the impression he wanted to play a game that involved high values of AC. If he stomps on everyone with spectres and PZs, which should be easy from this position given that it is Noble difficulty, the game will be over quickly.

 

[Grey Fox]

Then he could built Ragnarok and spam his adepts from there.

 

[Emptiness]

I don't see a need to immediately build a lot of Death mana. I think you should diversify in peace and then concentrate on Death mana when you are at war. You need mages to use Spectres and they will take a while to build up a decent force even though you're Arcane. The same applies with getting a good group of mobius witches, you need time to prune out the defective ones. In the meanwhile there are lots of useful magic that you could develop, a few adepts with utility spells like Inspiration, Haste, and Spring (especially for desert gold hills) will help develop the economy.

One of the advantages of the Sheaim is that their Mobius Witches can start with spheres for which they don't have the mana. This means that if you are patient then you don't have to mess around with juggling mana nodes. Keep Witches that give you access to the utility spheres you need, and convert your nodes to Death mana so that your Death affinity units will benefit. That way you don't end up with a bunch of fluff nodes that you have to spend time trying to reformat for Death while in the middle of a war that snuck up on you.

 

[AsmodeusUltima]

Okay, been busy, but I managed to play some more tonight. I researched Military Strategy and got the free Great Commander, whom I sent to a high production city and settled. I then went Sorcery, Horseback Riding, Elementalism, and Hunting (so I can finally get that Ivory). I also traded Keelyn Necromancy and Philosophy for Trade and Construction. What next? Arcane Lore?

On Turn 220 I completed the Form of the Titan! Unfortunately that same turn the Elohim completed the Great Library. On Turn 225 I got the Catacomb Libralis in the AV Holy City, and on 229 The Bone Palace. Finally on Turn 233 I completed Aquae Sucellus and the Ljolsofar completed the Great Lighthouse. I am 11 turns from the Prophesy of Ragnarok as well.

I have popped a handful of Ritualists which I have used to build AV temples in my cities and spread AV. I have also built one Adept which I currently am using to build a Metamagic node on my one Mana node. There are several more that I will be able to get access to easily once I start expanding again, not to mention the Broken Sepulcher. Oh, and I built the Summer Palace in Prespur, and a couple of archers with a settler on the way for starting on those south-western cities.

Two of my assassins have Blitz now, including Aeron's Chosen. I love those guys.

So my next move, from what I can tell, is to build Planar Gates, spread AV, build Rosier, spam adepts, and expand to gain access to more Mana that I can turn into Death nodes, as well as one Shadow node that I will combine with the Entropy from the AV shrine to build the Tower of Necromancy... This all sound good? Oh, and at this point I am not sure what would be useful for you guys to see so feel free to request screenshots.

 

[UncleJJ]

You really did get a good haul of wonders there AV should help with research and ritualists are fantastic support with their Ring of Flame and healing. Be sure to put an academy in the city with Catacomb Libralis and the AV Holy City as that will become a major research centre as you expand and spread the religion. Since you've gone for AV as your religion you will need to get gold from other sources so be sure to adjust your economy to compensate.

Tower of Necromancy is a very strong support for your PZ, skeletons and spectres (pun intended ). Recently I played a game as Tebryn Arbandi and I found that even the skeletons were decent troops once the mages had high combat and the Tower of Necromancy had been built. A free strength 4 unit, with empower 4 (say), mobility and enchanted blade was quite useful backup for the spectres (they only last 2 turns)and saved considerably on the need for PZs. Some of my skeletons even got to combat 4 as well . Before major battles I built up a stockpile of skeletons from my best mages (the witches didn't have many combat promotions). That allowed me to concentrate on getting a few economic buildings in my cities instead of spamming PZs. As you've found the limitation on the rate of expansion is the strength of your economy not the strength of your army. I found that being able to keep the army small in peacetime and then expand rapidly before attacking (with skeletons and spectres) was useful economically.

Also I found that against huge stacks of tier 2 troops like axemen and catapults, spectres are rediculously over powered even with only 1 or 2 Death affinity. Their main effect was the Fear promotion that caused the axemen to run away so I could destroy the catapults one turn and then pick off the remaining axemen later. So there is no need in the early game to go mad on Death nodes for affinity. Having 3 sources of Death mana (one from Tower of Necromancy) will be useful though as that will mean any witches will automatically be able to cast a spectre (although not with mobility or empower promotions). It also means that an adept starts with death 1 for more skeletons and you can convert them to mages with a free Death 2 promtion. Your best spectres will definitely come from home grown mages with spell extension 1 (mobility) and multiple combat (empower). Support those with a few other mages, witches and priests giving buffs to their summons like enchanted blade, dance of blades and shield of faith.

EDIT: referring to my game, I found that the Tower of Necromancy did not increase the number of skeletons I could cast by 5 as the description and civipeadia say. I could only cast upto the number of mages and witches with Death 1. Is this an undocumented change or a bug?

 

[Emptiness]

Oh, and at this point I am not sure what would be useful for you guys to see so feel free to request screenshots.

I would like to see:

· A one-screen overview of your empire.
· The southwestern future expansion area (close enough to see terrain, with resources labeled).
· The Domestic Advisor Screen, sorted by the column.
· The Glance tab of the Foreign Advisor Screen.
· For each nearby civ, a shot of the area between your empires.

 

[grayrest]

Some of my skeletons even got to combat 4 as well .

If you build the Tower of Necromancy early enough, the skeletons can be quite tough since empower+stigmata also helps them out quite a bit. The best I ever managed to do was a level 10 skeleton with cannibalize+commando. I was trying to get him up to blitz when spectre spam won me the game.

 

[Bootsiuv]

EDIT: referring to my game, I found that the Tower of Necromancy did not increase the number of skeletons I could cast by 5 as the description and civipeadia say. I could only cast upto the number of mages and witches with Death 1. Is this an undocumented change or a bug?

I've noticed the same thing myself.

To be honest, I was always curious how that would work. Would 5 casters be allowed a second skeleton? Would 1 caster be allowed 6 skeletons? Regardless, it seems like it would be difficult to code.

Why not just give all casters with Death I the ability to cast a second skeleton?

Oh well...it doesn't work right now regardless, so I suppose I won't trouble myself by worrying about it.

 

[AsmodeusUltima]

Here you go Emptiness:

Empire Overview


SW Expansion


W Expansion


NW Expansion


Domestic sorted by Hammers


Foreign Glance


Border with Ljolsofar


Border with Balseraphs

 

[grayrest]

Would 1 caster be allowed 6 skeletons?

Permanent summons aren't tied to a particular caster, they're just limited in number to the population who COULD summon them. E.g. If you had 5 Death I adepts and one Death II, Extension II, Combat V mage, the mage could summon 6 skeletons in a row and all would have Empower V, Mobility II.

 

[Demus]

damn, NW promises some insane production sites, not that i recon you'll need em... i'd start massing specter mages, while expanding to the other mana sites. You should be ready for full specter spam in 50-75 turns, after which you can go conquer the world.

 

[Senethro]

Look at those huge Ljos cities with no workers putting improvements ANYWHERE. The AI upgrade patch can't come soon enough.

 

[Sephi]

seems more to be an issue with the fog of war. in the visible area of the elven city there are improvements

 

[AsmodeusUltima]

So... did everyone lose interest in this game? I have been learning a lot and would love to continue...

 

[Demus]

well, as i see it, you've got 2 options: peaceful expansion or all-out war. expansion: settle the floodplains SW and production sites NW. War: settle mana-sites, get the tower of necromancy if you haven't already, turn the rest to death mana. Build (almost) nothing but adepts, get em up to mages asap.

 

[Senethro]

Spam Adepts, spam Death Nodes, don't get distracted by expensive wonders, research Feudalism so the AI can surrender to you, try to win before turn 300.

 

[UncleJJ]

So... did everyone lose interest in this game? I have been learning a lot and would love to continue...

I am still interested in how the game turns out for you. I gave most of my advice already in post 86 which you didn't reply to. All those wonders means you're in a strong position and should win easily from here and can use several approaches, none of them are the best, they just give a different type of game.

You could win quickly if you just build adepts and make mages that can spam spectres and skeletons. If you go that way you don't need Planar Gates, just build PZs (plus archers for garrison) and strengthen your economy with infrastructure (courthouses and markets etc). Building the Tower of Necromancy is obviously a good move and about all you need. Spectres with many Death Nodes are unstoppable at this level ... but you can do that with almost any game, there is nothing special about doing it with Sheaim.


That would not explore the potential of Sheaim unique units from the Planar Gates or the effects of a rising AC. I would prefer to see a longer game that used Planar Gates to generate most of the troops, backed up with a few mages and PZs. I would use Dispel magic to change nodes as the game progresses. A few adepts with utility spells like Inspiration, Haste, and Spring (especially for desert gold hills) will help develop the economy, while other spells like Rust, Enchantment can boost the army.

It's up to you; go for a quick Spectre / Death Mana win or a slower and more complicated one that will ensure that we all learn more from your game.

 

[Emptiness]

If the plan is still to bring about Armageddon then I suggest a period of peaceful expansion. You have relatively good relations with everyone around you and are in a strong position, and so are reasonably safe. You actually have a good relationship with the Balseraphs, which might be worth cultivating with open borders and resource trades. If that works out then spread AV throughout their empire.

The SW expansion area has great potential, especially once you get a Mobius Witch with Spring. My city recommendations are: 3N of the copper W of your borders around Nubia, 4W of the copper, 4 SW of the copper (will require you to torch a barbarian city), 1NE of the wheat, and 1W of the mana node southish from that wheat. You might also want to drop a city in the vicinty of Seven Pines, because the ability to suddenly end a war can be handy.

The W and N expansion areas are less impressive to me. I would suggest dropping some cities in them to push culture and grab mana nodes, and then go back and fill in the gaps later if the opportunity presents itself.

Position a couple of expendable units right on the Ljosalfar border. When blight hits, declare war and move in those units. This should trigger the Ljosalfar to use their Worldspell, which will remove all their nice Ancient Forests. Their food production and health bonuses will all vaporize, and the Ljosalfar cities will wither to nothing. After the Blight passes you should be able to march in and pillage their valuable improvements and demand concessions (or capitulation) for peace. Spread AV to their cities to drive the AC higher.

Eventually the four Horsemen will start arriving. Naturally it is best if they annoy everyone else, but sooner or later you'll have to deal with one or more of them. Spirit I will give your normal units immunity to fear, so that they can help take them down. I suggest leading the way with expendable Planar Gate units, since they will replentish themselves. Revelers are great for this, because they start with a move of 2 and so can chase down the fast-moving horsemen. Most undead don't work well against the Horsemen, but Pyre Zombies don't have that problem (another hidden Sheaim advantage in an apocalyptic world). Take them down and give their goodies to your Chosen of Aeron - especially Buboes' War. You want to get that if at all possible - it is a shortcut to the Armageddon because it raises the AC each time it kills a living unit. If you find out that someone else has killed Buboes then you should consider mounting an expedition to sieze War for yourself.

As the AC elevates you will begin to get more and more free units from your Planar Gates - so many that it can become an economic burden. Make these units support themselves by declaring war on your neighbors and pillaging their improvements for gold. Raze any cities you can find that don't follow AV, since that will increase the AC further. Keep your army size trim by being willing to risk the death of free units at long odds, and by not being afraid of losing them to counterattacks. Normally attack forces are kept in stacks to avoid being wiped out peacemeal; that's not a concern for you so spread them out so that you have as many opportunities to pillage improvements as possible.

When the AC hits 100 you should take advantage of the chaos to wipe out or vassalize everyone left in the game.