Spectral-Fremen
Chieftain
Athough i didnt get to play, it was nice meeting all the mp'ers and having a good old chat 
Hopefully next weekend!
Hopefully next weekend!
FfH Roleplaying Game Saturday!!
- Thread starter Kyroshill
- Start date
mimic
Magic Box
Yes! you!
btw we didn't continue sundays game when you left and we are hoping to continue it either tommorow or sometime soon (not sure Marco does tho 
)Athough i didnt get to play, it was nice meeting all the mp'ers and having a good old chat
Hopefully next weekend!
Sure, shame you left but sometimes getting a mp game going can be tedious, to say the least
I think it's high time we got a new thread, some of the info in the first post is out of date now and were on 20 pages
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Okay, I dont think its all that well known but the Khazad and the Hippus are supposed to have an ancient rivalry. Now, people are complaining how the hippus is OP or what not, but I thought it would be a great Idea for ME to play as the Khazad and someone else to be the hippus. I think it would be an interesting wager. It could be in an RP mass multiplayer as anyother, but for lore sake, and this fun idea, the hippus and Khazad could be mortal enemies of a sort.
Even Earth and Wind are opposing Gods, I've heard.
(Kilmorph and Tali)
Even Earth and Wind are opposing Gods, I've heard.
(Kilmorph and Tali)
mimic
Magic Box
Hm well not sure how well khazad can do against a stack of horse archers with warcry, horselord, raiders...partly the problem is the formation promotion (40% vs mounted) requires combat II, in the modmod I'm working on for rebalancing MP I've set it so the promotion doesn't require anything else so it can be taken right of the bat.
Hope everyone had fun over the weekend, I was busy but might be around someday this week so I'll check the thread.
About the Khazad/Hippus- I don't see the Khazad having any particular special advantage over them, though rp-wise I think it would make sense for both dwarven societies to distrust human mercenaries. Hippus are very, very powerful in general though, especially on non "fantasy" maps - maps with lots of mountains, chokepoints, etc... to hold. But rather than messing with Raiders or something, there's another solution - I would absolutely love if forts - the castles, citadels, etc... could exert a zone of control to prevent enemies from moving by (or moving at more than 1/turn) without taking it out (killing any defenders).
About the Khazad/Hippus- I don't see the Khazad having any particular special advantage over them, though rp-wise I think it would make sense for both dwarven societies to distrust human mercenaries. Hippus are very, very powerful in general though, especially on non "fantasy" maps - maps with lots of mountains, chokepoints, etc... to hold. But rather than messing with Raiders or something, there's another solution - I would absolutely love if forts - the castles, citadels, etc... could exert a zone of control to prevent enemies from moving by (or moving at more than 1/turn) without taking it out (killing any defenders).
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Hello, I was saying I would play as the Khazad. What exactly are you trying to say? One person is wondering if their is some special advantage the Khazad have over the hippus, then comes to the conclusion that he doesnt think there is, while another says that the hippus no matter what the start or who the player, would always kill the dwarves.
The unfortunate thing is that curbstomping people really doesnt satiate my anger, it only makes me wish their were more enemies left alive on the map.
The unfortunate thing is that curbstomping people really doesnt satiate my anger, it only makes me wish their were more enemies left alive on the map.
mimic
Magic Box
Yeah but we don't usually allow Hippus to be played (especially if it's tasunke) as they invariably build a bunch of horse archers that are unstoppable early game I was under the impression that you were saying by playing the khazad you would be able to deal with them and would use this ancient rivalry thing as RP excuse to do so.
Now I am
Now I am
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
He he he. I am saying that the hippus are not any more unstoppable than the Lanun, or the Elves. And occasionally the Vampires unless they start next to the hippus.
People envision an "unstoppable" force because they are playing by certain rules, usually self restrictive or just not looking at all possible aspects of the game. I agree that the hippus rock, but they are not invincible. I think it was funny how the horsearchers killed Hyborem in Fall Further, but that was because the opposing player overestimated the killing power of the Hyborem unit and perhaps underestimated the potentials of a lengthy truce. If I were him I would most likely have given up my old city, moved away, taken over the Shiam and later the Dov, and use a massive army with a fully promoted Hybo to SteamRoll the hippus, who would have to rely soley on Magnadine and Knights at that point.
My original point was that next time I will allow a Hippus player, and their "sole" target can be me or whatever. If people wanna play as the hippus its perfectly fine, especially if its a FFA game. In the lore games though, the Hippus are not always successful. Remember, they dont have a good way to take high defense cities, and they would be forced to throw away many good units just for the taking of one city with the proper measures. Of course ... there is the whole "pillage" thing, although the longer they stay in enemy territory, the more likely they are to get their own forces whittled away, as they can not use defensive promotions. I would find it as the ultimate challenge to me as a player if I were to play as the Khazad against someone else's hippus.
It has nothing to do with exploiting some kind of Khazad advantage, but I thought it would be a flavorful game that I would have a chance at not losing.
Perhaps its not about having the mechanical advantage but about trying to prove that the hippus are not always godly, they need the right economy and the right leadership.
People envision an "unstoppable" force because they are playing by certain rules, usually self restrictive or just not looking at all possible aspects of the game. I agree that the hippus rock, but they are not invincible. I think it was funny how the horsearchers killed Hyborem in Fall Further, but that was because the opposing player overestimated the killing power of the Hyborem unit and perhaps underestimated the potentials of a lengthy truce. If I were him I would most likely have given up my old city, moved away, taken over the Shiam and later the Dov, and use a massive army with a fully promoted Hybo to SteamRoll the hippus, who would have to rely soley on Magnadine and Knights at that point.
My original point was that next time I will allow a Hippus player, and their "sole" target can be me or whatever. If people wanna play as the hippus its perfectly fine, especially if its a FFA game. In the lore games though, the Hippus are not always successful. Remember, they dont have a good way to take high defense cities, and they would be forced to throw away many good units just for the taking of one city with the proper measures. Of course ... there is the whole "pillage" thing, although the longer they stay in enemy territory, the more likely they are to get their own forces whittled away, as they can not use defensive promotions. I would find it as the ultimate challenge to me as a player if I were to play as the Khazad against someone else's hippus.
It has nothing to do with exploiting some kind of Khazad advantage, but I thought it would be a flavorful game that I would have a chance at not losing.
Perhaps its not about having the mechanical advantage but about trying to prove that the hippus are not always godly, they need the right economy and the right leadership.
mimic
Magic Box
Ah I see, thanks for explaining
Anyway I'd rather not have them in our saturday games for all those reasons.
I've seen hippus horse archers stack attack a city with palisade, walls, archery range, bonus defenses from culture all that stuff, still take the city and not even lose a single unit they also have 40% vs archery units, commando, first strikes, start with 20% str (with tasunke) have 4 move, 6 str with warcry and horselord and whatever other promos they have from being built with exp. the only way to get a bonus against them is through formation and that requires combat II.
They have 4 move and commando allowing them to move faster than your own units on your own roads they can be in and out in a turn and have pillaged at least 80 turns of rebuilding with workers, a massive withdrawal chance on the off chance they do get attacked ensures they will escape and they will be stronger unless you beelined iron working by the time they have horse archers (highly unlikley).
Anyway I'd rather not have them in our saturday games for all those reasons.
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Horsemen are 5 strength with warcry, and Horsearchers are 7 strength with warcry.
This one game with a great commander and Orthus' axe, one of those Horsmen had 7 strength while the rest had 5 strength.
If you were the Calabim, I will have you know that the horse archer game was completely lucky. I did not have any axe or great commander, but What I did have was two adventurers popped from lairs. Also, with 5 cities, your forces were too thinly divided. You probably should have placed them all closer to the front lines, though the point is, I knew you were building up your forces, yet waiting for my two horse archer heroes was more productive as it meant the longer I waited the more those two units would be unstoppable. I was also extremely lucky during the first two rounds of fighting, as most of my army was within inches of death.
In that particular case I was hemmed in on all sides, and everyone was equally within my grasp. That was kinda moreso an FFA game considering the circumstances, but regardless I only built an army like that because A) its the strength of my civ and B) because I was cut off on all sides from expansion, while you had a whole peninsula to your north.
If ye must know, I think its not completely a lost cause because the Khazad do better with fewer cities, and get a few more defensive bonuses in the Early game.
Also, I doubt that the HIppus will always have two heroes, and also, I pretty much know the entire hippus inside and out. If other people do as well due to the simplistic nature of the hippus, then so be it. I was actually pointed out the hippus strengths long ago by a fellow strategist.
I think the main problem is not that any civs are overall overpowered, but in the way the MP games tend to be played. There is no AI, so people can't have the luxury of an empire, they must make use of as few cities as they can to their max efficiency. The civs that do the best in having a good military without the buildup (hippus, doviello??) or can build up in cheap, cheater ways (lanun, elves),
are going to do the best in this kind of game, where everyone is crowded into each other and no-one has someone else to expand into without being a bad guy and killing someone else's game.
Lore games I think would be strengthend by the AI because people can use their basic expansion strategies on the expendable AIs, and then with the newly formed empires, hopefully most people will be happy with their civ's position in the world and perhaps some lore can form.
I of course, am also a fan of lore being created as a game goes on, due to the way a game is progressing. That one game where the Balseraphs were taken out by the lowly Sidar was, in my mind, hilarious, and of course the vampires and the Grigori gave many lives holding the Clowns at bay as the Sidar did what had to be done. Eventually the Holy city was razed to the ground by the grand assasin, after years and years of hit and run tactics across the whole empire.
This one game with a great commander and Orthus' axe, one of those Horsmen had 7 strength while the rest had 5 strength.
If you were the Calabim, I will have you know that the horse archer game was completely lucky. I did not have any axe or great commander, but What I did have was two adventurers popped from lairs. Also, with 5 cities, your forces were too thinly divided. You probably should have placed them all closer to the front lines, though the point is, I knew you were building up your forces, yet waiting for my two horse archer heroes was more productive as it meant the longer I waited the more those two units would be unstoppable. I was also extremely lucky during the first two rounds of fighting, as most of my army was within inches of death.
In that particular case I was hemmed in on all sides, and everyone was equally within my grasp. That was kinda moreso an FFA game considering the circumstances, but regardless I only built an army like that because A) its the strength of my civ and B) because I was cut off on all sides from expansion, while you had a whole peninsula to your north.
If ye must know, I think its not completely a lost cause because the Khazad do better with fewer cities, and get a few more defensive bonuses in the Early game.
Also, I doubt that the HIppus will always have two heroes, and also, I pretty much know the entire hippus inside and out. If other people do as well due to the simplistic nature of the hippus, then so be it. I was actually pointed out the hippus strengths long ago by a fellow strategist.
I think the main problem is not that any civs are overall overpowered, but in the way the MP games tend to be played. There is no AI, so people can't have the luxury of an empire, they must make use of as few cities as they can to their max efficiency. The civs that do the best in having a good military without the buildup (hippus, doviello??) or can build up in cheap, cheater ways (lanun, elves),
are going to do the best in this kind of game, where everyone is crowded into each other and no-one has someone else to expand into without being a bad guy and killing someone else's game.
Lore games I think would be strengthend by the AI because people can use their basic expansion strategies on the expendable AIs, and then with the newly formed empires, hopefully most people will be happy with their civ's position in the world and perhaps some lore can form.
I of course, am also a fan of lore being created as a game goes on, due to the way a game is progressing. That one game where the Balseraphs were taken out by the lowly Sidar was, in my mind, hilarious, and of course the vampires and the Grigori gave many lives holding the Clowns at bay as the Sidar did what had to be done. Eventually the Holy city was razed to the ground by the grand assasin, after years and years of hit and run tactics across the whole empire.
mimic
Magic Box
I don't believe I was in that game, but yeah str 7 horse archers? wow their even more OP than I thought.
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
well ... all other Horsearchers have allways been 6 strength. But the warcry only lasts long enough to really be used against one civ.
mimic
Magic Box
Heh do you want a game? I'll play hippus you play khazad, come to FFHRP.
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Well, if your gonna still be ready in about 3-4 hours or tomorrow, I think that sounds like an AWESOME IDEA
as of right now I am at the house that does not support creativity. AKA the DOOM HOUSE muahahahaha.
But yea, I think it would be useful, your on! hehe.
as of right now I am at the house that does not support creativity. AKA the DOOM HOUSE muahahahaha.
But yea, I think it would be useful, your on! hehe.
mimic
Magic Box
Sweet I'll be on tomorrow.
I'll be on tomorrow.
retro V
Prince
Phew, roleplayers can come back out now, the hijackers have left 
mimic
Magic Box
lol sorry anyway I've put a new thread up.
New thread because we no longer have a chatroom (we use hamachi) we usually try and start earlier than we did before and we have some new rules.
New thread because we no longer have a chatroom (we use hamachi) we usually try and start earlier than we did before and we have some new rules.
