FfH2 0.14 Balance Recommendations

[Kael]

Please use this thread to post any recommendations you have for balance issues.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I think this is a vanilla thing, but one does not incur a penalty for attacking diagonally across a river.

Actually it doesn't seem to be diagonally, it seems to be from a distance. So I'm not sure if it is a display problem or actually ignoring the river when begining from aback.

 

[Sureshot]

ya the diagonal thing has always seemed wrong to me.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael,

Since 0.13 there is a building that i think nearly useless : palisade.
Explanation:
One of the first building i build is an obelisk to improve my cultural border. it also gives me +25% def bonus when i reach the first cultural growth level. Palisade also gives +25% def bonus. So, i think that palisade building is useless. It gives you a non permanent bonus equal to the cultural one (which is permanent). Furthemore, palissade are quickly obsolete and cost too many shields.
What is the solution ?
OMI:
- lower the cost. 20 shields for exemple.
- raise the bonus to +50% against barbs and let it to +25% in others cases(for exemple) as it becomes quickly obsolete.
- divide the cost by two for def trait leader. There are defensive, no?

What do you think of my feelings?

The Frog.

 

[Kael]

Kael,

Since 0.13 there is a building that i think nearly useless : palisade.
Explanation:
One of the first building i build is an obelisk to improve my cultural border. it also gives me +25% def bonus when i reach the first cultural growth level. Palisade also gives +25% def bonus. So, i think that palisade building is useless. It gives you a non permanent bonus equal to the cultural one (which is permanent). Furthemore, palissade are quickly obsolete and cost too many shields.
What is the solution ?
OMI:
- lower the cost. 20 shields for exemple.
- raise the bonus to +50% against barbs and let it to +25% in others cases(for exemple) as it becomes quickly obsolete.
- divide the cost by two for def trait leader. There are defensive, no?

What do you think of my feelings?

The Frog.

Yeah, I think you are probably right. We will talk about cutting it.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Just like the skeletons, consider having blooded and greater werewolves created unable to attack the first turn. It's a free turn for them, since they just attacked to grow.

Also, Grigori Adventurers cannot become inquisitors. Understandable if intentional, but possibly not.

Edit: FM, nope I have one running around. No one ever expects the Grigori Inquisition.

 

[FM_Freyland]

Inquisitors were cut, I believe.

 

[Kael]

Just like the skeletons, consider having blooded and greater werewolves created unable to attack the first turn. It's a free turn for them, since they just attacked to grow.

Also, Grigori Adventurers cannot become inquisitors. Understandable if intentional, but possibly not.

Edit: FM, nope I have one running around. No one ever expects the Grigori Inquisition.

Yeah, they cant upgrade to inquisitors because you have to upgrade through all of the stages to be able to do that and they are blocked from disciples and priests.

Blooded and Greater Werewolves have finishmoves set on them when they are created. They shouldnt be able to attack, I will creck it out.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael,

I was testing the new Khazad as Arturus Thorne and i think there is a balance problem.
Industrious trait gives you a strong bonus to build wonders. It gives +50% wonders production as you know. If you add the bonus of a full or overflowing Dwarven Vault as i had, wonders build time becomes low. So, i built around 70% of the world wonders, even when i began their after others civs and those i usually never built . I also let you imagine that some wonders were built in a very very short time: Form of the Titan for exemple, as i had the bonuses described above and copper. Same idea for Prophety of Ragnarock , as i own Stone....
Maybie, Arthurus Thorne's industrious trait had to be changed to an other one.
What do you think of my feelings ?

The Frog.

 

[Kael]

Kael,

I was testing the new Khazad as Arturus Thorne and i think there is a balance problem.
Industrious trait gives you a strong bonus to build wonders. It gives +50% wonders production as you know. If you add the bonus of a full or overflowing Dwarven Vault as i had, wonders build time becomes low. So, i built around 70% of the world wonders, even when i began their after others civs and those i usually never built . I also let you imagine that some wonders were built in a very very short time: Form of the Titan for exemple, as i had the bonuses described above and copper. Same idea for Prophety of Ragnarock , as i own Stone....
Maybie, Arthurus Thorne's industrious trait had to be changed to an other one.
What do you think of my feelings ?

The Frog.

I love the fact that the dwarves are good at wonders (if they are kept happy with their gold). But I agree that the amount of "goodness" may be to much. Lets get some balance feedback back from others and we can adjust it if its to powerful.

 

[Silverkiss]

Add to it God King civic (+50%), Organized Religon civic (+25 ot 50%, dont remenber) and a Dwarven Smithy whit copper, iron and mithril (+55% ?), and a city whit like 10 Plains Hills and you can build anything in 1 turn. (i alredy did it)

 

[Hian the Frog]

Add to it God King civic (+50%), Organized Religon civic (+25 ot 50%, dont remenber) and a Dwarven Smithy whit copper, iron and mithril (+55% ?), and a city whit like 10 Plains Hills and you can build anything in 1 turn. (i alredy did it)

Hi JuliusBloodmoon,

You are right. In my gameplay, it took me 9 turns to build Form of the Titan. Some buildings took 1 turn, even if most were built in 2 or 3 turns. And my Dwarven Smithy only works with iron (from the mines of "don't remember the name" the wonder of Kilmorph ) and copper. I had not yet discover the mithril techs.

The Frog.

 

[Silverkiss]

Mines of Gal-Dur I think is the name of the wonder

 

[khanjackal]

i'm playing as thorne

and frankly, it's a pain

having to manage my total money level, not having high level spells

it's GREAT having such a huge production, and i can build lots of tier3 units, but not having any of the arcane spells is a pain

it seems fair so far to me

 

[SchpailsMan]

Does the penalty for "other religion" depend on the actual distance between religions ? I thought I had read something like that, but it seems that I have the same penalty being Veil with OO civs than with Order or Runes civ (although with the order the alignement penalty adds up, making it really a war-trigger, which is cool btw ).

I don't know if it would make sense that Veil -> OO have a lesser penalty than Veil -> Leaves or Runes... I just found it a bit hard that the Sheaim, who were Evil with OO state religion were annoyed right when I met them because of the -4 religious penalty compensating the +2 evil-friend bonus. I couldn't even sign an Open Borders agreement to have a chance to convert them or anything.

(note that in this game, I am alone on an isle near the northern edge of the map, and I can't trade resources with anyone until I get Astronomy I guess I could be able to soften the diplomacy modifier when I eventually get to trade resources with the Sheaim, and maybe I'll manage to get OB in the future... it was just my impression that "evil with OO" wasn't that far of "evil with the Veil", but then again the +2 for evil-friendship might already help balance it out... well, I don't know, it just feels more natural to me that I would have lower diplo with an evil-Leaves than with an evil-OO)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I think you should add a large diplomacy bonus for returning a city to it's original owner (rather than keeping or burning it.) Probably the exact opposite of the you razed one of our cities! penalty.

 

[Hian the Frog]

I think you should add a large diplomacy bonus for returning a city to it's original owner (rather than keeping or burning it.) Probably the exact opposite of the you razed one of our cities! penalty.

Hi Nikis-Knight,

Yes. I agree with you.
Furthemore, IMO, some "good" civs would be NEVER allowed to raze cities if good or neutral alignement. Evil ones could be, of course. When you look at the leader trait, only evil ones (Clans leaders and hyborem )automaticaly raze cities. Bannor and Malakim seems to be too much good to follow this idea, but Elohim, Kuriotates and Luchuirps ? What are theirs goals ? Religious conversion? Land control ? Not sure when you read their outlook.
Kael probably knows the answer....
Meanwhile, i like you idea.

The Frog.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Don't you already get a bonus for returning a city to its original owner!?

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I've been of this opinion for a while now, but no one else has brought it up, so I've kept silent. I figured I might as well see what the team thinks of it, though. Does it seem to you that recon units are overpowered? Hunters really dominate early game warfare. Do you intend for this to be so?

 

[Kael]

I've been of this opinion for a while now, but no one else has brought it up, so I've kept silent. I figured I might as well see what the team thinks of it, though. Does it seem to you that recon units are overpowered? Hunters really dominate early game warfare. Do you intend for this to be so?

Its largely intentional. It grants players who adop a recon build an early game advantage that is laregly lost by the time macemen/longbowman show up. I know abotu the assassin vs maceman numbers but it becomes more difficult (but still viable) to hold onto a country as a whole with a recon build in the midgame.

But yes, hunters are the undisputed masters of the unexplored world, and lose their dominance as civilization spreads and the more advanced iron troops and mages hit the scene.