FfH2 0.14 Bugs

[Hian the Frog]

1. Your civilization (and these are set differently).

Ok. I understand that. If you play Sheaim, you always start with Ancient Chants....for exemple

2. Your handicap. If you start on Warlord or easier you get Exploration for free. I suspect this is why all of the leaders seem to have exploration for you.

I usually play on Prince so no free start tech.


What i want to say is that it would give more taste and flavor if the starting tech would be different for each leader and not for each civ...

The Frog.

 

[QES]

Kael,
Played Ljosifar with Leaves and noticed that Yvain doesn't start/get the "Elven" promotion. That seems odd for a Hero with "Wood Elf" in their name...

He said in a different post thats getting fixed in .15 Good spotting it!
-Qes

 

[QES]

Ok. I understand that. If you play Sheaim, you always start with Ancient Chants....for exemple

I usually play on Prince so no free start tech.


What i want to say is that it would give more taste and flavor if the starting tech would be different for each leader and not for each civ...

The Frog.

But...as flavor goes. Isnt it good to have "types" of benifit seperate between leader and civ? No matter who you chose your going to at "least" get Tech A. But leaders determine Traits B - E.
It creates some stability, because then the civs are different in the way they start the game (granted a goodly portion of effort has gone into successfully making the "starting tech" the smallest portion of difference between civs, but still)
-Qes

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Your starting techs are decided by 2 things:

1. Your civilization (and these are set differently).
2. Your handicap. If you start on Warlord or easier you get Exploration for free. I suspect this is why all of the leaders seem to have exploration for you.

This morrning, I had to pay for exploration on the Noble handicap while playing BB for Luchuirp........that explains that sixteen round head start everyone has overme........don't know why..could it be a bug?

 

[Kavok]

I found an odd bug.

Well the Grigori (I think, not 100% sure) had two ancient temples, I had none.

So I toss one of his temples onto the trading screen and ask "What will make this work" he then proposes a deal where he gives me ancient temples for nothing?! So I agree.

I -think- he wanted to trade for something he couldnt get, but still thought he was getting?

It was a trade, not tribute, im 100% positive on that.

Also, what determines the spread of religion? My religion never seems to spread as well as the computers.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Don't the religions have different spread rates? I know that when I found the Order, it spreads to, like, 10 cities right off the bat. Aside from that, I think it's just trade routes with cities that already have it, and a lower spread rate if the city that could have it spread to them already has a religion or two.

And that's very interesting about the Ancient Temples. Is it planned for them to give a happiness/health bonus eventually?

 

[vorshlumpf]

The Sentry Towers will show up, too, if you've settled on top of them. I think this is just side-effect of these two terrain features being implemented as resources.

YOu failed to refrain since it was mentioned .

Hmm, I must have failed to notice . . . =)
Care to point me in the direction of the post(s)? I wouldn't mind hearing other ideas on the matter.

But i think roads are necessary for military purposes as well. Then theres the factor of some of us are lazy, and dont want to micromanage the workers (yes i know manipulating them personally is more efficeint and quick, but im a king, i got better things to do than over see a workshops construction...there are people to oppress, nobles to tax.......women to impress with my royal scepter...etc. I cant be bothered (except with mana nodes) to trifle with counting coppers.

Stilll, i see your point.
-Qes

Ah, yes. I never automate my workers so I fail to consider that possibility. Since the central theme of Civ IV seems to be playability, I guess that nixes my idea. For what it's worth, I thought that Woodsman II could combine with the Elven trait to give a unit 3x movement in forest. This would be the "Hidden Paths".

- Niilo

 

[vorshlumpf]

Please excuse me if these have been mentioned before:

1) The settings screen is no longer available from the victory conditions screen.

2) Shield of Faith's defensive bonus hasn't shown up for me in the combat log. As well, after one such defensive battle I noticed an odd value for the terrain bonus in the combat log:

3) Just as Bambur, Maros does not get a terrain movement bonus in hills (yet has "Double movement in hill" listed).

4) Pagan temples come up as a recommended building for culture generation.

5) You cannot chop ancient forest, but you can remove it by building something on top of it (and get the production bonus in the nearest city).

6) Dwarven druids do not get a movement bonus in hills despite being labelled "dwarven".

7) Has anyone else noticed the lack of AI Golden Ages? I have yet to see one, and I remember them happening all the time before (it's gone from one extreme to the other).

- Niilo

 

[Sureshot]

I think I remember a golden age in one of my last few games.


About the terrain attack thingy, aren't your "Guerilla" promotions supposed to give you a bonus when attacking from (or into, i forget) a hills tile? Doesn't seem to work, I tried using a warrior to attack from a hill forest (and the warrior had woodsman I and guerilla I) into another hill forest against a goblin, and it didnt list my bonus for attacking when I right clicked, and I lost horribly.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

iirc, The odds shown are correct, but that bonus hasn't been coded to be displayed yet. You can test it out by using a unit with a promotion, mouse over a guy on a hill, give yours guerilla, then recheck the odds.
And I believe in a recent version the Ai was updated to add great people (and animals) to cities more often? That would give them less golden ages.
Myself, I never get golden ages, not patient enough with my GP.

 

[Silverkiss]

Me too, I always add them to citys, use their special ability (build academy, rush production, etc) or, if I´m desperate, use them to get a tech.

 

[vorshlumpf]

I agree about GPs and Golden Ages. I rarely save them. So I think the AI change is for the better - I just wanted to make sure it [didn't] keep them from Golden Ages 100% of the time.

iirc, The odds shown are correct, but that bonus hasn't been coded to be displayed yet. You can test it out by using a unit with a promotion, mouse over a guy on a hill, give yours guerilla, then recheck the odds.

Hmm, I see what you mean, and see that I may have misunderstood Kael on this issue before. I'll check it out again when I'm back in the game.

- Niilo

[Edit: I hate making mistooks]

 

[Sarisin]

I agree about GPs and Golden Ages. I rarely save them. So I think the AI change is for the better - I just wanted to make sure it kept them from Golden Ages 100% of the time.


Hmm, I see what you mean, and see that I may have misunderstood Kael on this issue before. I'll check it out again when I'm back in the game.

- Niilo

The only way I have had a Golden Age is by building the Bone Palace, I think it is.

I have seen the AI civs beat me to this wonder and get the Golden Age. I think I have rarely seen Golden Ages by combining GPs by the AI too, but very rare.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

We are looking into a war script that will monitor the game and push wars when the situation is right. It propbably won't be added until the "Fire" release.

This sounds good. There are occasions when the AI seems in need of a little shakeup to break diplomatic 'logjams'.

Im glad you are having fun. We have talked about removing roads from elves, havign forests act as roads, creating another road type called "paths", etc etc.

But nothing is worth the amount of effort. Removing roads entirely takes the elves ability to link resources away. So we would then need to code a new way to link resources without roads (a lot of work which wont dramatically improve the game).

I am having a lot of fun indeed. In fact, I should not have used the word 'tedium' to describe the endgame to my dwarf game. I've had a bit of a fun running a bard bomb campaign. But I'll save that description for tomorrow, as it is too late right now. I think it will apppeal to your sense of appreceation for hos small early events can shape endgame events.

Now to post a new bug:

Me Ale, Whar's Me Ale?! For some reason only half (roughly) of the Dwarven cities are able to build Breweries! This was noticed realy only when it came time to build Taverns. But I swear to god some of my cities cannot build them, while others can.

Well, off now to find the Dwarf thread to ***** a little.

 

[evanb]

Me Ale, Whar's Me Ale?!

IIRC, the city needs to be on a river to be able to build a brewery.

 

[QES]

Chalid the Hero is awesome.

Let me start there.
However, i did notice that his wondeful summons DO disapear before my opponent's attack. I know summons are supposed to disapear on MY turn....but they were VERY much gone by the time the AI's turn came around.
I summoned a dude, moved im into range, placed a weaker unit under the summon, then hit enter, the summon disapeared, and my unit got attacked.
Bug?
-Qes

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

IIRC, the city needs to be on a river to be able to build a brewery.

Thanks evanb. I hate taking up designer time reporting 'bugs' that are really just quirks Ihave failed to learn. Bad Unser, bad!

 

[vorshlumpf]

Hmm, I see what you mean, and see that I may have misunderstood Kael on this issue before. I'll check it out again when I'm back in the game.

Okay, I did some testing and number crunching and found out a few interesting things about terrain defense. The "actual odds" below were reported in the combat log.

Using goblins as the attackers and defenders (to make easy math) I set up 6 combats:

1) Grassland/Hills (+25% defense)
Attacker Promotions: Guerilla I (+40% att./def.)
Defender Promotions: None
Expected Odds: 1.40 vs. 1.25
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.25

2) Plains/Hills (+25% defense)
Attacker Promotions: None
Defender Promotions: Shield of Faith (+10% str, +20% terrain defense - all types)
Expected Odds: 1.00 vs 1.55
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.55

3) Grassland/Hills/Forest (+75% defense)
Attacker Promotions: Guerilla I (+40% att./def.), Woodsman I (+40% att./def.)
Defender Promotions: None
Expected Odds: 1.80 vs 1.75
Actual Odds:

4) Grassland/Hills/Forest (+75% defense)
Attacker Promotions: None
Defender Promotions: Shield of Faith (+10% str, +20% terrain defense - all types)
Expected Odds: 1.00 vs 2.05
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.85

5) Plains
Attacker Promotions: None
Defender Promotions: Shield of Faith (+10% str, +20% terrain defense - all types)
Expected Odds: 1.00 vs 1.30
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.30

6) Plains/Forest (+50% defense)
Attacker Promotions: Woodsman I
Defender Promotions: None
Expected Odds: 1.40 vs 1.50
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.10

Conclusions Thus Far:

1) Since #2 and #5 were correct, it seems that Shield of Faith is working correctly at some times. However, it didn't work properly in trial #4. Perhaps it is only working properly for Plains at the moment (in addition to the Grassland failure in #4, the first time I noticed a problem with SoF was when defending on a forested desert hill).

More testing will be necessary to isolate the problem.

2) Guerilla I promotion appears to be completely ignored when attacking a hill, but more testing will be required to confirm this.

3) When an attacker with Woodsman I is attacking into a forest, the 40% benefit for the attacker is taken off the defender instead. It's great to see the game moving in the direction of accounting for an attacker's terrain promotions, but it's mathematically incorrect to use it on the defender's score. A 1.40 vs 1.00 situation does not have the same odds as a 1.00 vs 0.60 situation.

I apologise, Kael, for misunderstanding you on this issue earlier. I hope I now understand enough to provide useful feedback.

Time for bed.

- Niilo

 

[QES]

For what it's worth, I thought that Woodsman II could combine with the Elven trait to give a unit 3x movement in forest. This would be the "Hidden Paths".

- Niilo

Hm, I do like this idea...but the elves are the most powerful in the game right now......my first goal is to get everyone else "up to speed".
But yeah, i want that.
-Qes

 

[QES]

Niilo,

1) Grassland/Hills (+25% defense)
Attacker Promotions: Guerilla I (+40% att./def.)
Defender Promotions: None
Expected Odds: 1.40 vs. 1.25
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.25

Guerilla I is defense only. Wont work with an attack i believe.

4) Grassland/Hills/Forest (+75% defense)
Attacker Promotions: None
Defender Promotions: Shield of Faith (+10% str, +20% terrain defense - all types)
Expected Odds: 1.00 vs 2.05
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.85

What looks like is happening here is the +20% terrain bonus isnt getting counted. Maybe it overlaps with the 75% from the Grass/hill/forest. But why would that happen? I dont know.


6) Plains/Forest (+50% defense)
Attacker Promotions: Woodsman I
Defender Promotions: None
Expected Odds: 1.40 vs 1.50
Actual Odds: 1.00 vs 1.10

I dont know if Woodsman Gives offense, as i said earlier. But if it does -
I think i remember something about CIV IV that tries to "simplify" combat. It seems like its just subtracting .4 off both numbers. I'm not sure why, since the difference in preportion is significant. Still something vaguely recalls that civ iv does this sometimes.

-Qes