FfH2 0.16 Bug Thread

[Maniac]

This is probably vanilla Civ behaviour, but I thought I'd mention this silly behaviour anyway.

Ethne just founded a city right next to a stack of barbarians. Also, instead of instantly razing the city, the barbs just sit there doing nothing. I should note that those were originally the garrison of Hyol which I converted with Rantine. I guess they just stay stuck in their previous unit AI or something.

Also a couple turns later the Order has been founded in Ring of Sion. Am I the only one who considers Civ4's logic of founding new religions in one of the last founded cities silly? Eg the Octopus Overlords has also been founded by the Lanun in a marginal peninsular city on my continent which will never become a good city. Wouldn't it make more sense for religions to be founded in your cultural core?

 

[Silverkiss]

I agree, it pisses me off when I found one of the later religions in a bad city... or when they get founded on Kuriotates settlements.

 

[Kael]

This is probably vanilla Civ behaviour, but I thought I'd mention this silly behaviour anyway.

Ethne just founded a city right next to a stack of barbarians. Also, instead of instantly razing the city, the barbs just sit there doing nothing. I should note that those were originally the garrison of Hyol which I converted with Rantine. I guess they just stay stuck in their previous unit AI or something.

Also a couple turns later the Order has been founded in Ring of Sion. Am I the only one who considers Civ4's logic of founding new religions in one of the last founded cities silly? Eg the Octopus Overlords has also been founded by the Lanun in a marginal peninsular city on my continent which will never become a good city. Wouldn't it make more sense for religions to be founded in your cultural core?

That is weird, the game doesnt actually look at the most recent city. It looks for the city with the largest population that isnt your capital (and we added code in one of the 0.15 patches that makes it unlikely to found in a settlement).

 

[Maniac]

Then the code mustn't be working half the time I think.
Indeed half the time a religion is founded in a good city, usually after a reload *cough* But the other half it's definitely according to the rule 'latest founded/captured city'. Eg in my current game all three religions I saw the founding of (Order, Veil, Overlords) this was the case. In my experience this is also the case in unmodded Civ4 btw.

 

[Gamestation]

Those are some pretty weird things you found M@ni@c. That city did not even have a garrison and the barbs left that alone. You could check the unit AIs by activating cheat mode and then pressing Ctrl-z.

It would be nice to be able to decide yourself where a religion should be founded. Put it in the capital to take advantage of the God King gold bonus more easily. Of course then that opens up the possibility that the AI would still put the holy city in an absurd place.

By the way, about religion, does the agnostic trait work at all against missionaries? I ran a test and found that the religion spread rates through missionaries are about the same (I also tested how the missionaries performed against varying numbers of religions so that is not a factor for my conclusion).

Also this may not be an actual bug but it sure bugs me a bit that jungles can still spread automatically while forests can not (or forests have not been spreading automatically for me for a long time so I guess that was a change you guys made). Wasn't that change to the forests made so that people who started with several forests surrounding them would not be as handicapped? I think it defeats the purpose of the change if instead jungles creep in to kill the usefulness of the tile it occupies.

 

[Bringa]

That is weird, the game doesnt actually look at the most recent city. It looks for the city with the largest population that isnt your capital (and we added code in one of the 0.15 patches that makes it unlikely to found in a settlement).

Do you understand the logic behind NOT founding religions in your capital? To make late-expansion games more interesting? Because from the player's point of view I can hardly imagine a single scenario where founding a religion in your capital would NOT be the most preferable way to go.

 

[Sarisin]

Do you understand the logic behind NOT founding religions in your capital? To make late-expansion games more interesting? Because from the player's point of view I can hardly imagine a single scenario where founding a religion in your capital would NOT be the most preferable way to go.

In one of those raging barb games where it was hard to expand, I had only two cities. I was able to found all of the religions (except Cult) and, yes, every one was in my second city.

Later, I was able to build a couple of other cities, but my second city which saw a stream of Great Prophets arrive really became much more than my capital.

 

[Sarisin]

This is probably vanilla Civ behaviour, but I thought I'd mention this silly behaviour anyway.

Ethne just founded a city right next to a stack of barbarians. Also, instead of instantly razing the city, the barbs just sit there doing nothing. I should note that those were originally the garrison of Hyol which I converted with Rantine. I guess they just stay stuck in their previous unit AI or something.

I had similar happenings in my current game...

I have built up an army of HN units. I send them out to enter enemy AI borders without having to declare war. My goal is to deplete the defenders in their cities so the barbs can come in a capture/raze the cities. I do this mainly because there are so many defensive pacts among AI civs I cannot declare war on one without having to do with a bunch...plus raging barbs.

In theory, this works only part of the time due to the whacky behavior of the barbs. After I clear out all the defenders from the city leaving it wide open, the barb would rather attack me and pillage improvements THAN TAKE AN UNDEFENDED CITY! How is that for bizarre AI?

Eventually, most cities are captured/razed, but not after I sustain casualties and most, if not all, improvements are pillaged.

 

[Maniac]

In theory, this works only part of the time due to the whacky behavior of the barbs. After I clear out all the defenders from the city leaving it wide open, the barb would rather attack me and pillage improvements THAN TAKE AN UNDEFENDED CITY! How is that for bizarre AI?

A couple people have reported that the AI's biggest goal is to attack Hidden Nationality units, even if the victory odds are suicidally low. Kael hasn't changed anything to make the AI prefer attacking HN units - still, fact is the AI does. (Which btw can lead to a cheesy tactic of placing a HN unit outside a city if you want to make the defenders move out to suicide themselves on the HN unit instead of making the more sensible choice of staying in the city.)

So anyway, I'd suggest moving your HN units out of sight of the barbarians and then see if they raze the city.

 

[gregeb]

Hey guys. When I try to start Ffh II it says something like "civilization.exe.e has generated errors" and closes. Do you know why?

 

[marioflag]

Probably it is not a bug, or it is something obvious to a lot of you, but in my last game cultural borders of my capital grew without that my city reached any cultural threshold.In other words i have my capital which enlarged borders at 328 cultural points?
I have modded the promotions in my game but it seems a bit strange to me that there is any link between cutural borders and promotions

 

[marioflag]

these are the pictures:

 

[Priority7]

I thought this was kind of interesting, and it seems a little buggy, so I guess I'll put it here.

I was recently playing a MP game where both me and the other player were playing as the Balseraphs (on the same team, if it matters). I completed Loki, expecting her to just be unable to build the unit. Much to my surprise, the next turn comes around, and she can suddenly build the Shrine of the Champion, while Loki was not dead.

I can see why this happened, more or less, so I don't really need that explained, but I thought I should mention it, it being rather rare for two people to play the same civ (I think).

 

[kzoocauchy]

Then the code mustn't be working half the time I think.
Indeed half the time a religion is founded in a good city, usually after a reload *cough* But the other half it's definitely according to the rule 'latest founded/captured city'. Eg in my current game all three religions I saw the founding of (Order, Veil, Overlords) this was the case. In my experience this is also the case in unmodded Civ4 btw.

In my experience, the other deciding factor is if there is another religion in the city already. If, for example, you have thoroughly spread your state religion throughout your civ then capture a barbarin city, it won't have a religion present, right? So, if you found a new religion the next turn, your new city will be the only one with no established religion. That being the case, the new religion will be founded in that city. It's merely coincidence that it's the newest, least developed city.

Whether or not this is the case in vanilla civ, I can't remember.

 

[Sarisin]

Why can you build mounted heroes like Kithra and Valin even if you don't have Horses or a stable?

Being heroes do they bring their own horse with them and somehow magically not need a stable?

 

[Sarisin]

A couple people have reported that the AI's biggest goal is to attack Hidden Nationality units, even if the victory odds are suicidally low. Kael hasn't changed anything to make the AI prefer attacking HN units - still, fact is the AI does. (Which btw can lead to a cheesy tactic of placing a HN unit outside a city if you want to make the defenders move out to suicide themselves on the HN unit instead of making the more sensible choice of staying in the city.)

So anyway, I'd suggest moving your HN units out of sight of the barbarians and then see if they raze the city.

Good points and I will keep them in mind in my next game as I do love using HN units.

FWIW I did move away my HN army to go after another city, but it was still awhile before the barbs captured/razed the city with no defenders. Maybe the AI was able to put a defender in the city while I moved on.

I still don't understand why the barbs don't go after animals before I capture them, but they go straight for them after I have done so. Aren't they still HN in both cases assuming I did not give them my nationality?

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Good points and I will keep them in mind in my next game as I do love using HN units.

FWIW I did move away my HN army to go after another city, but it was still awhile before the barbs captured/razed the city with no defenders. Maybe the AI was able to put a defender in the city while I moved on.

I still don't understand why the barbs don't go after animals before I capture them, but they go straight for them after I have done so. Aren't they still HN in both cases assuming I did not give them my nationality?

They are barbs with hidden nationality. It would be the same as if an ai civ goes after their own mercenaries. The barb civ knows the animals are not their own hn units - so it attacks them.

 

[Sureshot]

Why can you build mounted heroes like Kithra and Valin even if you don't have Horses or a stable?

Being heroes do they bring their own horse with them and somehow magically not need a stable?

generally all heroes dont need a resource or a building, even when the hero is based on a type of unit. like gilden doesnt require an archery range.

 

[loki1232]

Why can you build mounted heroes like Kithra and Valin even if you don't have Horses or a stable?

Being heroes do they bring their own horse with them and somehow magically not need a stable?

Well Kithra's Pedia entry explains the lack of horses.

But yeah It's just magic.

 

[Kael]

Do you understand the logic behind NOT founding religions in your capital? To make late-expansion games more interesting? Because from the player's point of view I can hardly imagine a single scenario where founding a religion in your capital would NOT be the most preferable way to go.

It allows for more strategic options. Instead of building up a bunch of value in one super city it spreads the value and gives more options to attackers.