FfH2 0.32 Balance Feedback

[Avahz Darkwood]

maybe the angels should get weapons upgrades?

I would have to agree I think this could be what they need... I will edit them myself and see if this works..... Thanks I hadnt though of that...

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Why isnt Basium Immortal like Hyborem are they not the same rank? Or is it because he left the service of Junil and lost that gift?

Lore Nazi:

Yes they are the same rank, but Basium is the archangel of Arawn (IIRC) sabathiel is Junil's

All the archangels in the game are immortal, so i don't see why Basium isn't...

 

[CruX]

I've finished my first 0.32 game yesterday, and I won my first ever victory with Kuriotates . It's my second ever Altar Victory. Those changes does make them more playable.

Ok, so here the real issue, mainly I wanna comment on two issues. The first one is about enclave. My first impression is it's an improvement that take forever to be built. I waited eagerly for it to mature only to found that my first ever enclave came on around turns ~200. It was a little too long, so, I took the liberty to check out the FFH2-o-pedia and calculated the total amount of turns required to build them. Here what I found,

Cottage-->Hamlet = 10 turns
Hamlet-->Village = 20 turns
Village-->Town = 40 turns
Town-->Enclave = 60 turns
Total = 130 turns

130 turns? Isn't that a little too much? Normally, I play a standard size, standard speed map, and most of my games ended around turns 400~500. So, 130 turns is about a quarter of my game turns. This makes enclave a major weakness for the Kuriotates instead of enhancing them, since a few pillage will undone most of their hard work. Is there any we can tone it down? Or perhaps, we can make the growth to become doubled after a certain tech has been researched (Kuriotates only)?


The second thing that I wanna comment is Minister Koun. In my game, Minister Koun is an ally of the Lanun, and we all are members of Overcouncil. We voted to declare war on the Svartalfar and so, the Lanun use their worldspell. I noticed that the bubbles that shows the damages are unusually more than normal, and so I checked out the event log. The Lanun casted their worldspell twice!

I wondered if the AI has been improved that they know how to build the Birthright Regained ritual, and then cast their worldspell on the same turn. Well, they were not as no Ritual has been built at all (and not that they can anyway) . It is only then that I realized that Minister Koun are the same civ as their original civ, the Lanun. So, great, they are working as intended. But, no, it's not great, a double worldspell is definitely too strong. Can Minister Koun worldspell be replaced by a weaker version, or can it be disabled at all? A "twincast" worldspell is a little too much to take.


*They killed a few of my lvl 6 stonewarden waiting to be upgraded, destroyed more than a dozen of my enclaves/towns (so, they proved my theory above about enclave true, thank you), destroyed nearly half of my armies, and killed my Great Prophet. I was researching Omniscience then and going to build my lvl 6 Altar. Aaargh, it was so painful.*

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Lore Nazi:

Yes they are the same rank, but Basium is the archangel of Arawn (IIRC) sabathiel is Junil's

All the archangels in the game are immortal, so i don't see why Basium isn't...

OOPS thanks for the correction I should know this

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Ok I loaded a save game and allowed the angles to get weapons upgrades. They upgraded to Iron from the start made them an 8 str (4 base 2 holy 2 Iron). They survived the attack from the angry Dwarfs, but got locked in a standstill, much like Hyborem and the Elohim. I recon this is a good sign seeing that in any other game they may actually be strong enough to fight on the front lines.

(I didnt give them time to upgrade, but I would assume that the stronger angle units would still have the weapons, and making any natural builds weaker because they dont get the upgrades. Why would Basium start with Iron if he is the only one who can use it?)

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

.....:*

The Minister Koun cast his world spell with the Lunan because he is his own civ now just a perm ally with the Lunan. In my game he was a Bannor civ.


Was he Agnostic in your game?

 

[CruX]

Yep, he is Agnostic. But that does not stops him from casting the worldspell.

And I think his civ is follow whichever civ owner that "spawn" him (is spawn the correct word?). But, whatever civ he is, a double worldspell on the same turn is definitely too strong, except, maybe the Ljosalfar? No more trees for them

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Yep, he is Agnostic. But that does not stops him from casting the worldspell.

Yea It was just an unrealated question....

 

[Grey Fox]

He doesnt have the trait Agnostic, instead he is like Auric Ulvin with -100 weight on all religions.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

He doesnt have the trait Agnostic, instead he is like Auric Ulvin with -100 weight on all religions.

Well what ever you call it he shows up as Philosophical, Agnostic when you click over his name... A rose by any other name still stinks...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why isnt Basium Immortal like Hyborem are they not the same rank? Or is it because he left the service of Junil and lost that gift?

Basium never was a servant of Junil. He was the Archangel of Life, under Arawn. (While Arawn was the God of Both Life and Death, he Created Basium and his twin sister Gyra, the Archangel of Death.) Basium, like Cassiel, refuse to agree to the compact or to keep serving their gods, choosing instead to fall; they, like Sphener, chose to become mortal in order to not be bound by the Compact. If you read Basium's entry, you'll see it refers to his now mortal hands.

Hyborem did not fall (in the sense of willingly becoming mortal, not in the sense of being a corrupted form of Cernunnos), so he did not sacrifice his immortality. He is not acting on the orders of his god Agares and so not under his divine protection, but Agares did agree to secretly support his venture into creation.



Minister Koun is agnostic. Also, he doesn't seem to be in a permanent alliance (or any other sort of diplomatic agreement) with the civ from which he broke away.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Basium never was a servant of Junil. He was the Archangel of Life, under Arawn. (While Arawn was the God of Both Life and Death, he Created Basium and his twin sister Gyra, the Archangel of Death.) Basium, like Cassiel, refuse to agree to the compact or to keep serving their gods, choosing instead to fall; they, like Sphener, chose to become mortal in order to not be bound by the Compact. If you read Basium's entry, you'll see it refers to his now mortal hands.

See other post please....

Kinda ironic though that the angle of life can die so easily =)

 

[Grey Fox]

Ok, I was mistaken

Btw, I think each civ should have their own ministers or something else, to be used when making Colonies. The colonies should also get a nerfed palace with no manas.

Using colonies with real palaces is not excusable with making Tower of Mastery easier anymore since we got Metamagic.

 

[Randolph]

On moderately related note, it's always bothered me as a lawyer that under the Mercurian pedia entry it says that "Basium broke the compact," but then goes on to say that "when the Compact was signed, he refused to give up direct battle with demons." If he wasn't a signatory to the compact, then it seems odd to say that he broke it. Perhaps Arawn broke the Compact by not reigning in his (her?) subordinate, or perhaps the term "the Compact" is a misnomer, and it was in fact intended as a law enacted by a (or multiple) governing body (/ies) intended to apply all subjects of the signatories, not just the signatories themselves. In this case Basium broke Arawn's law, which may have had an impact on Arawn's own adherence to the Compact he (she) signed (I'm guessing that the Compact is probably most analogous to a treaty between states).

This is a similar problem to the statement that, “Dick Cheney broke the Geneva convention.” Dick Cheney wasn’t a signatory of the Geneva Convention; the United States broke the Geneva, because Dick Cheney, acting as an agent of the United States violated the terms of the treat.

Hummm… the more I write, the more I get the impression that I’m the only person this bothers…

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

On moderately related note, it's always bothered me as a lawyer that under the Mercurian pedia entry it says that "Basium broke the compact," but then goes on to say that "when the Compact was signed, he refused to give up direct battle with demons." If he wasn't a signatory to the compact, then it seems odd to say that he broke it. Perhaps Arawn broke the Compact by not reigning in his (her?) subordinate, or perhaps the term "the Compact" is a misnomer, and it was in fact intended as a law enacted by a (or multiple) governing body (/ies) intended to apply all subjects of the signatories, not just the signatories themselves. In this case Basium broke Arawn's law, which may have had an impact on Arawn's own adherence to the Compact he (she) signed (I'm guessing that the Compact is probably most analogous to a treaty between states).

This is a similar problem to the statement that, “Dick Cheney broke the Geneva convention.” Dick Cheney wasn’t a signatory of the Geneva Convention; the United States broke the Geneva, because Dick Cheney, acting as an agent of the United States violated the terms of the treat.

Hummm… the more I write, the more I get the impression that I’m the only person this bothers…

my head hurts now...

 

[Ringtailed]

Cottage-->Hamlet = 10 turns
Hamlet-->Village = 20 turns
Village-->Town = 40 turns
Town-->Enclave = 60 turns
Total = 130 turns

In FFH, the cottage line improves twice as fast as in vanilla. For example, cottage->hamlet is listed as taking 10 turns, but it actually only takes 5. So total time required is 65 turns at normal speed, not 130.

 

[MaxAstro]

In FFH, the cottage line improves twice as fast as in vanilla. For example, cottage->hamlet is listed as taking 10 turns, but it actually only takes 5. So total time required is 65 turns at normal speed, not 130.

Actually, I think the double cottage speed bug was fixed in a recent version. I thought I saw cottages now upgrading at the normal speed.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Nope, they still have doubled growth.

Judging by the fact that cottages used to grow at the normal rate if not being worked, and both that bug and the double worked growth rate were mentioned a lot, and only the former was fixed, I have to believe that the double worked growth rate isn't a bug. It's gotta be intentional to have lasted this long despite drawing all that attention.

 

[xienwolf]

Minister Koun is agnostic. Also, he doesn't seem to be in a permanent alliance (or any other sort of diplomatic agreement) with the civ from which he broke away.

I fear this will be a FAR too frequent mistake/debate. So I want to try and clear it up as soon as possible to get people to understand how he works.


There are 2 Ways to have Minister Koun enter the game. One of them is Sovereign City, and he will be Teamed with the Civ he breaks from. The other is City Split, and he will go off on his own.

In each case, the text which you recieve will be exactly the same, so you don't have any way of knowing which one you have actually triggered. There is a 20% Chance for each event to be in the game, thus it could be possible for BOTH to be in the game, but the event is blocked from triggering if Koun is already a player (even if he was already wiped out), so only whichever version triggers first will happen.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Oh. Thats good to know, I guess.

How about making a third apparently identical event that makes him your vassal?