Fighting Mechanichs Mod Proposal

[Killtech]

I was always a bit frustrated when losing too many units on a heavy fortified city and thought that it's quite unrealistic that your units usually fight till the last man standig when they attack.

therefore i modified the retreat chances for all units to a much higher level of above 50% for melee units, cavalry about 80% and ranged units 65%... resulting in a much different gameplay i find more fun and more realistic: defending besiged cities requires breakouts to finish retreating troops and so on. surprisingly the ai could handle such defence situations very well. but it had problems while attacking heavy fortified cities because it presistently keeps engaging even with units that retreated a round before.

of course the expirience system would require some adaptations for such changes like 1 xp should be lost for each retreat instead of gained (after all a unit has lost nearly all it's man after a retreat) and promotions likewise.

i woundered how many people here would approve such different fighting mechanics and if it's worth considering a modmod for RoM or something.

 

[Afforess]

I was always a bit frustrated when losing too many units on a heavy fortified city and thought that it's quite unrealistic that your units usually fight till the last man standig when they attack.

You're not the first to complain about all-or-none tactics. I too, dislike this style of fighting, but am usually too wrapped up in other requests to make modmods I actually want.

therefore i modified the retreat chances for all units to a much higher level of above 50% for melee units, cavalry about 80% and ranged units 65%... resulting in a much different gameplay i find more fun and more realistic: defending besiged cities requires breakouts to finish retreating troops and so on. surprisingly the ai could handle such defence situations very well. but it had problems while attacking heavy fortified cities because it presistently keeps engaging even with units that retreated a round before.

This would also make medics much more valuable, so that you could keep long sieges going. Combined with the Surround and Destroy modmod, and the Castle Improvements, this would make medieval battles much more interesting.

of course the expirience system would require some adaptations for such changes like 1 xp should be lost for each retreat instead of gained (after all a unit has lost nearly all it's man after a retreat) and promotions likewise.

True. I think it could be done in the SDK, but I would have to make such a change a gameoption.

I, for one, would love to see these changes.

 

[vincentz]

I was always a bit frustrated when losing too many units on a heavy fortified city and thought that it's quite unrealistic that your units usually fight till the last man standig when they attack.

therefore i modified the retreat chances for all units to a much higher level of above 50% for melee units, cavalry about 80% and ranged units 65%... resulting in a much different gameplay i find more fun and more realistic: defending besiged cities requires breakouts to finish retreating troops and so on. surprisingly the ai could handle such defence situations very well. but it had problems while attacking heavy fortified cities because it presistently keeps engaging even with units that retreated a round before.

of course the expirience system would require some adaptations for such changes like 1 xp should be lost for each retreat instead of gained (after all a unit has lost nearly all it's man after a retreat) and promotions likewise.

i woundered how many people here would approve such different fighting mechanics and if it's worth considering a modmod for RoM or something.

First of all : Big welcome to CFC
Secondly : I completely agree, and thought about doing it myself, but its a lot of work.
Thirdly : Since it is your first post I recon you didnt make the changes as a modmod.
Since you are not "scared" of editing, please make it modable, and upload it in the modmod section. I'll happily betatest it

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Looks like a good mod idea. What effect does this have on/with the flanking promotion for cavalry which causes them to damage siege units if they retreat from an attack?

 

[Killtech]

About making this a modmod:

originally i changed all the xml entrys for each unit... and it were quite a lot. and i made the changes bluntly in the original mod. this isn't an option now though. therefore i thought that this could be achived by giving all units a default promotion rising their retreat chances. btw this method could save a lot of work - but i'm not much expirienced in modding civilization so that's just an assumption.

Looks like a good mod idea. What effect does this have on/with the flanking promotion for cavalry which causes them to damage siege units if they retreat from an attack?

hmm i cannot remember a specific difference here TBH. but maybe i just didn't realize...

 

[vincentz]

Ahhh (Big lightbulb)

Before organized military, I think they just send the hole lot to get slaughtered or prevail (Do or Die)
Maybe add a bonus promotion with barracks giving a powerfull retreat promotion. And a more powerfull retreat promotion with garrison.

To test I made this small modmod that unfortunately breaks saves (dono why???)

Spoiler :

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by lcollins (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Building Infos -->
<Civ4BuildingInfos xmlns="x-schema:Retreat_CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml">
	<BuildingInfos>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_BARRACKS</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_ZULU_IKHANDA</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_ASSYRIA_EKAL</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_GARRISON</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_GARRISON</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
	</BuildingInfos>
</Civ4BuildingInfos>

It simply gives the Tactics promotion to any unit build in a city with a barrack or garrison

 

[generalstaff]

Ahhh (Big lightbulb)

Before organized military, I think they just send the hole lot to get slaughtered or prevail (Do or Die)
Maybe add a bonus promotion with barracks giving a powerfull retreat promotion. And a more powerfull retreat promotion with garrison.

To test I made this small modmod that unfortunately breaks saves (dono why???)

Spoiler :

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by lcollins (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Building Infos -->
<Civ4BuildingInfos xmlns="x-schema:Retreat_CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml">
	<BuildingInfos>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_BARRACKS</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_ZULU_IKHANDA</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_ASSYRIA_EKAL</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_GARRISON</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_GARRISON</Type>

			<FreePromotion>PROMOTION_TACTICS</FreePromotion>

		</BuildingInfo>
	</BuildingInfos>
</Civ4BuildingInfos>

It simply gives the Tactics promotion to any unit build in a city with a barrack or garrison

Similar things should be done with Naval Academy (Retreat Bonus) and Military Airbase (Evasion Bonus).

 

[Afforess]

Ahhh (Big lightbulb)

Nooo... I wanted to use you to settle in my city, not bulb a tech.

 

[generalstaff]

Nooo... I wanted to use you to settle in my city, not bulb a tech.

I was hoping for a Golden Age myself.

 

[NBAfan]

I was hoping for a Golden Age myself.

I wanted to use his special ability. (you figure out what it would be)

Release the Modmod vincentz.

 

[Killtech]

Huch, i see you've already made a first mod while i'm still stuck with getting the 2.8 megapack to run... nice vincentz, it's quite exactly what i had in mind. hmm browsing through the files i realize that i need to learn a bit before being able to make senseful modifications myself .

however next simple step would be just to import xml files to override current pormotions so that everyone could change the 'iWithdrawalChange' values for each promotions to their likes. donno how complicated it'll be to add new promotions (to replace the current tactics promotion you use now) that are specific to different unit types (such that cavalery retreat chance can be adjusted independently form the infantery's).

i'll try this to do it myself to get the basics of civ-modding but it'll take some time i guess.

 

[Afforess]

i'll try this to do it myself to get the basics of civ-modding but it'll take some time i guess.

Don't worry, once you start getting the feel for it, it becomes a snap.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The only worry I have with this mod is that it may make it impossible to capture a city since everyone will withdraw. So I am going to test it out in my next game.

 

[Afforess]

The only worry I have with this mod is that it may make it impossible to capture a city since everyone will withdraw. So I am going to test it out in my next game.

Nah, just bring a medic or two, and your sieges will go better than ever.

 

[Killtech]

The only worry I have with this mod is that it may make it impossible to capture a city since everyone will withdraw. So I am going to test it out in my next game.

well actually the result should be the same with the small difference that more of your units are sill alive after the attack then they would usually... and that the defender didn't get the expirience for those units who withdraw with near to no health and would normally just die (i think to change this will be much more of a problem). due to my expirience with my first attempt of such modification it seems that's rather the attacker who gains an advanage (especially if he's not an AI player).

 

[Afforess]

it seems that's rather the attacker who gains an advanage (especially if he's not an AI player).

IDK, if the attacker can't take the city right away, it's units are going to be rather weak, and the defender will be able to mop the floor with them.

Or maybe, it will encourage higher defenses.

Either way, I'd love to see the outcome of this.

 

[Killtech]

IDK, if the attacker can't take the city right away, it's units are going to be rather weak, and the defender will be able to mop the floor with them.

Or maybe, it will encourage higher defenses.

Either way, I'd love to see the outcome of this.

yes, the defender will need to make some breakouts to finish the weakened enemy. but by doing this he'll lose the fortify bonus. at the other hand he can decide which of his units will get a free xp point for finishing off the withdrawed army... but only in case the attacker didn't leave one or two units out of the battle for the purpouse of defending his weakened stack in case somethings went wrong... ah tactics and startegies... it all becomes a bit more complicated with that change...

EDIT: and due to this more complicated situations a real player gains an advantage over ai players either way . thus i remember it was for me easier to get very expirienced units after some time (therefore changes to the xp system are required for this to work properly)

 

[Randomness]

Also makes cavalry more useful, as they can run away, avoiding the counter attack after retreating.

 

[little_cyclone]

IDK, if the attacker can't take the city right away, it's units are going to be rather weak, and the defender will be able to mop the floor with them..

Personally I always deliberately left a few units alone and fortified in my siege stack for just such a contingency, unless I just needed that one last attack to take the city

 

[Adde]

I don't know if it would combine well with this mod or not, but I've always felt there should be an option similar to fortify except for attack, so that for example I could move my units next to the city I want to attack and then set them to begin preparing for an attack, and each turn they spend preparing (up to a certain max limit) would give them an attacking bonus.