Firaxis scale or not?

[Wyrmshadow]

What do you prefer to use? The tiny and often misshapen default Firaxis units, or user-created stuff that is perhaps larger and more detailed. I am of cource focusing on mechanical units since most infantry and cavalry remains the same size as the defaults.

 

[Bjornlo]

Put another way:
Are you willing to replace all your units to accomodate a scale that is 3 times as large?
In otherwords are you so bothered by the firaxis vehicles that you will replace all of them with much larger versions?
Mixing and matching gives strange results. For example, bombers that are smaller then fighters.

 

[Ozymandias]

Not that you didn't load the question but there's simply no comparison between the works-of-art units created by our best creators and the (by comparison) second-rate originals.

-Oz

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Civ has what? 9 aircraft? I've made how many?? 200? There's no need to mix and match with that number of choices.

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

i like the user-created work like Wyrmshadows, Kinboats, and others

 

[Bjornlo]

Not that you didn't load the question but there's simply no comparison between the works-of-art units created by our best creators and the (by comparison) second-rate originals.

-Oz

Good point, perhaps vote not based on if the unit creators can create better then original, but specifically which size you prefer.

The advantages are:
The larger will be more detailed by nature of the greater number of pixels available.
The standard size will fit better with stock and other scale units.

Personally, I would have prefered a larger base resolution and the same units. The standard 1024x768 is a bit small. It is possible to force a larger screen, but the results are not always predictable.

 

[Bjornlo]

i like the user-created work like Wyrmshadows, Kinboats, and others

It is not a question of if you like user created over stock, but which size do you prefer the units in.
Wyrmshadow wants a specific result so he can justify his position. His fear of his position not being popular is such that he wrote the question in the most biased way possible.

For example, I too prefer the quality of the user create units. But would prefer them in the standardized size.

 

[MarineCorps]

Put another way:
Are you willing to replace all your units to accomodate a scale that is 3 times as large?
In otherwords are you so bothered by the firaxis vehicles that you will replace all of them with much larger versions?
Mixing and matching gives strange results. For example, bombers that are smaller then fighters.

Not hard at all to replace the crappy firaxis units. I have replaced nearly all of them.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

For example, I too prefer the quality of the user create units. But would prefer them in the standardized size.

from Dictionary.com

Definition#5 of Standard

Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely recognized or employed, especially because of its excellence.

Synonyms: standard, benchmark, criterion, gauge, measure, touchstone, yardstick
These nouns denote a point of reference against which individuals are compared and evaluated


The Firaxis STANDARD of non-infantry units was terrible to begin with.

EDIT: underlining and bold text, now THAT's arrogance.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Put another way:
Are you willing to replace all your units to accomodate a scale that is 3 times as large?
In otherwords are you so bothered by the firaxis vehicles that you will replace all of them with much larger versions?
Mixing and matching gives strange results. For example, bombers that are smaller then fighters.

Here's the thing:
You want a:
Fighter:replaced
P-51:replaced (2)
Zero:replaced
Wildcat:replaced (2)
P-38:replaced
FW190:replaced (3+)
Me-262:replaced(2)
B-17:replaced(2)
B-2:replaced
JetFighter:replaced

Battleship:replaced (oh lord how many is it??)
Destroyer:replaced
Cruiser:replaced
Carrier:replaced (5+?)
Transport:replaced
Aegis:replaced

Modern armor:replaced
Mechanized Inf:replaced
Tank:replaced
Pazner:replaced



So what I'm trying to point out is that you have no reason to be shackled to the original Firaxis scale when many poeple have made many replacements for each unit at a much better scale. As I said earlier, you're being a Stick-In-The-Mud.

 

[Palantir30]

Here's the thing:
As I said earlier, you're being a Stick-In-The-Mud.

The thing you're not noticing is the mud.

You can change the scale of units all day long, but they're still going to be on the backdrop of the terrain tiles, so relative size still counts. The original POS Hittite 3 man chariot, besides having an annoying sound effect, is about as large as a city icon.

Larger-scale units are beautiful, but out of scale with the environment, even if you do replace all units.

Increase the number of pixels per tile, and I'm all with you. As that number is static, I'm respectfully voting for the standard size.

 

[Drift]

Civ-scale is hardly in scale with the terrain either, but I prefer it over larger units - too large units steal too much attention from the big picture. Of course, my interests lie elsewhere regarding units. As I don't mod or play modern scenarios/mods, I really don't have any use for any of the wonderful mechanical units people keep pumping out. For example, I've yet to download a Wyrmshadow unit (which is not because I don't like the man - I don't, but the reason is simply that I haven't had a need for any of his units).

Bigger scale is more understandable in planes - civscale planes do tend to be a tad too small, but then again, for example the Messerschmitt shown by Wyrm in that other thread was way too big for my taste.

 

[El Justo]

i'll never again use those stinkin default air and mech units. the larger sizes and choices and more appropriate IMO. if anything, civ3 scale is the one which is 'off'.

 

[utahjazz7]

I think that the Firaxis units are better than user-created units, especially the mechanical units. They just fit better with the over all look and theme of the game. As far as the originals being tiny and misshaped, I don't consider them tiny. I like the cartoon (misshapen) look that the units have, more than a realistic look.

 

[sourboy]

User creations are more detailed - but Firaxis units are more consistent.

If a User re-creates all the Firaxis units, along with their other creations - I would change to the new units, no hesitation. If not, I don't care how detailed the units are - I'd prefer they all were based on the same principles & met the same consistancy. I mean c'mon - we've all seen the skinny humanoid units that are laughable next to the Firaxis units - even if they are more detailed.

Leaderheads follow the same rule, but there you can sacrifice some. I'm switching to all custom LH's because they look much better (heck, you can see an improvement from Vanilla LH's to C3C LH's). The only drawback is that there are limited "quality" creators, thus limited new LH's - meaning I have to remove some Civs, at least temporarily (we all have a few we don't like anyway, so no big deal). Removing units changes the flow of the game, so I have to either mix & match, or stick with a "complete set."

The only positive with units is that they can be broke down into groups - humanoid & artificial. When I get around to it, I'm sure Wyrmshadow's library is more than sufficient to meet the needs of replacing the Firaxis artificial units - even to the tune of Culturally Unique units. My only speedbump at this point is finding enough satisfactory humanoid units to meet the CU-units need.

 

[Zhargon]

On the question of scale, for me the original Firaxis 'size' for a unit is obviously the best, since it is consistent with the background and is aesthetically pleasing.
I do use the 'grossly oversized' units however, because I like the variety, but I think it a shame that all that effort has gone into making a unit which does not conform the the standard Firaxis sized 'map box' - I'd be pleased if someone spent the time and effort to 'shrink' the variety of large units to the standard size so that I could replace the large ones. On a similar vein I did try a few of the 'multi' units in one game, but I found them to be too large for my taste also.
I regret that although I have many suitable tools I do not have the artistic bent to produce a decent unit myself, and I'm thankful that there are talented folk who can poduce units (of whatever size) for the benefit of the Civ communiy; and if 'they' could make a unit in the standard size at the same time as making one in a larger size so much the better......

 

[Bungus]

One thing I like about the Firaxis vehicals is that they're all rumbly.

 

[warmwaffles]

USER CREATED by far.

One you can respect the person that took the time to set up a scale perfect model.
Two User created units are simply awsome cuz Wyrms, Ripptides, Winters, and Aaglo, plus many others are simply awsome!!!

Firaxis has some crap units and some are good

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

In terms of size, I prefer the original Fireaxis scale - but that's probably because I'm more interested in ancient/medieval units than industrial/modern. Whilst I consider Wyrmshadow's work to be of the highest quality, I don't tend to use it because I spend most of my Civ 3 time playing ancient/dark age/medieval scenarios.

I do consider the units by creators such as Wyrmshadow, Aaglo, BeBro, Dom Pedro II, Kinboat......the list could go on(!!)...to be so much higher quality than that of Fireaxis - but feel that could be partly because they do specific units (and do them brilliantly!) rather than ones that can be used generically, like Fireaxis does. For example, with Fireaxis we have a default spearman, which "does" but is not suitable for, say, the Aztecs. Someone rolls up and does an Aztec spearman and the civ-specificness goes some way towards it being a better looking unit. Naturally, the individual talent that all those listed above have a lot to do with it as well .

IMHO, the comment I made there also applies to leaderheads. When I first did the spate of African leaderheads, part of what made them accepted and downloaded was the lack of other African leaderheads. If someone wanted to play as Denmark, then a leaderhead done specifically in a Danish style is better than a default leaderhead that was intended as another civ but possibly could fit Denmark. That is not a bash at me and the rest of the creators - there's some good leaderheads out there! I'm not saying that their specificness is the only thing that makes them accepted, just that it plays a part.

 

[gaultesian]

Wyrmshadow's units are above par, and no doubt, any of the great designers (Wyrmshadow, Muffins, Kinboat, Smoking Mirror, Dom Pedro II, BeBro, Ripptide, and the list goes on and on... there are a great number of you fine folks ) units surpass Firaxis' originals.

Let's face it, if a game can be modded, chances are you will find a bunch of creative and experienced 3-D 'amatuer' designers (who truly love the game and recieve no profit what so ever except the satisfaction of their work and little to show for it except hard work and constant griping by the populace of whiners and anxious users such as myself) who will take the game design to the next level.

Those folks grace these pages with their fine work, and because of folks like yourself, companies like Firaxis can extend the lifespan of interest in a game/product based partly on the hard work on non-employees.

I will not buy a PC game that cannot be modded significantly - there is no sense buying a game that forces you to go down the original designer/programmer's path - it gets boring quickly.

With that being said, however, I will agree with trying to keep all units at the Firaxis size without trying to up/down proportion units that are suppose to be bigger or smaller in real life. I find that when playing with smaller-than-Firaxis-sized units, you lose the quality of the unit, and ones that are larger-than-Firaxis-sized units generally take up too much room on the field, plus at certain angles, they block the fighting animations (especially if they are fighting in the 'north' direction).

I find people who are making mecha units and such used to have that problem, but have cut back on the over-sizing as of late.

Sincerely,

Gaultesian