First 10 (or so) turns

[Chieftess]

What's a good strategy to use during your first 10 turns or so? That is, what techs to get, and how to expand. I know some of it would depend on the number of civs, how close they are, the land mass, difficulty etc.. What's everyone's in general? (besides exploring with your first warrior, which is kind of obvious).

Also, in the demographics, What's the 'production'? I know the Mfg. Goods. are your total usable shields.

 

[Tassadar]

1.- 2-3 warrior depending if im on a river , which pay extra soldier over 4.
2.- settler and a second city
3.- now i can increase science reserch to 80 % because my worker did some road around my capital.
4.- usually i search for granery ( as a germam) so i am able to built granery, then warrior settler, settler warrior settler, spearman, temple, pyramid, while i search alphabet, writing, and litterature. the rest is a secret

 

[Rob Lindsey]

I don't agree about Tassadar's point 3. There's no point putting the science rate up to 80% so early. Your civ won't be producing enough commerce to allocate extra gold to science. Chances are, your size 1 capital only produces one to three commerce icons for the first 20 or so turns.

I love putting up my science as high as possible, but early on, you can put science on 20% or even 10%. There's no added time to completing a science advance, and often you generate more gold per turn. Don't keep it like this for too long, though!

With expansion, the key is to work out how quickly your capital will get to size 3. For example, it will be about thirteen turns 'till it gets to size 3. Is there enough time to build a warrior, or even a spearman? Aim to make your new settlers jump straight out as soon as the town can handle the population decrease.

On technology, Bronze Working is a good bet if your civ doesn't start with it. The spearman unit remains your staple defense unit for millenia, and is great for fighting back barbarian tribesmen wanting to loot your treasury. On higher difficulty levels, probably go for Ceremonial Burial to allow for preventing early rioting. Although, your town population shouldn't get that high since an expanding civ needs plenty of settlers. I guess that highlights that your playing style will dictate what is most urgently needed.

With your question on 'production' in demographics Chieftess, are you talking about that stats page that appears at the end of the game, with population, literacy, military service and that stuff? I always look forward to seeing that interesting stuff, but I don't know how the production figure is worked out. Hope that helps!

:soldier: :soldier: :soldier: :soldier: :tank: :tank: :soldier: :soldier: :soldier: :soldier:

 

[Hawkster]

I think its vital to use either a scout (if you are a civ that has one) or use a warrior to explore as much as possible. Goody huts are a great source of early techs/units - and to find where resources are.

Another early tech I always aim for is iron working.

 

[Tassadar]

Red Linsday i know at size 1 it make no effect to be at 50 or 80 % but by the time i built my granery, my citiy grow and when the capital is on a river and you did some road on worked tile you will be able to see a huge diiference in reasearch speed, at 50 % it can took 24 turn to learn masonry, but 80% it took 18 turn, so its good to use the slider to adjust reaserch even earlie in the game, a capital city size 3 on a river worth more than 3 little city size 1.But i know there is different style to play so i dont pretend to have the truth

 

[BillChin]

For novice players I suggest the following:

Take one or two turns to select the best tile for the capital. Building over a luxury icon, or on a river or coast help. Build 3 warriors, settler, 3 more warriors, second settler. Plant these first two settlers very close to the capital. I suggest one square away on the diagonal, two away on the straight. This start gives three cities, all connected by roads and six warriors. This virtually guarantees that a player survives the first age on Emperor difficulty and below. As a player becomes more experienced they can find their own style, but this is a powerful start for novice players and the early leverage gives a player many options later on.

For research, if I have a gold bonus from a luxury or river, I put science at 100%. I sometimes go for pottery, sometimes for Bronze Working, sometimes the Wheel.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by BillChin
For novice players I suggest the following:

I suggest one square away on the diagonal, two away on the straight.
i agree with you on everything but excpt this, dont you think overlapping capital so much will be a handicap later on? sorry for my english.

 

[Hurricane]

It´s usually a bad idea to start researching Pottery or Ceremonial Burial. These are the cheapest techs, and goody huts always gives the cheapest tech available. Thus, you risk doing research in vain if you happen to get a tech from a goody hut.

 

[royfurr]

The point about putting your Science rate low early on is that with the low initial commerce output, your pretty much going to get the 40 turn "max time to build tech" rate anyway, so don't waste money generation (via a lower tax rate) with a higher science rate. You can take this concept a step further for at least a little while: set science rate to zero, and have a single Scientist in one city. That single beaker will get you in the running for the 40 turn max to build time, and allows max tax rate usage. BUT, be alert because just as soon as a 10% science rate will drop you to less then 40, its time to retire the scientist and boost the science rate in the conventional fashion.


Unless they've patched this out without my noticing ... (shhhh!! about any effective strategy, the Puritans may call it an exploit and patch it out ....)

 

[Tassadar]

when i found a tech in a goodyhut its never the one im reaserching, and as a german i m already guear up for war, so i like to built granery after my second city, so after 2-3 other settler my capital grow quicker to size 6-7 with temple even 8 if im lucky on luxuries ( no need of aqueduc on river), put a librairies on that and you got several non corrupted beaker.

 

[BillChin]

In response to two posts:

Overlapping tiles is a big advantage for novice players. The benefits are increased gold and shields from using the improved tiles of the capital, easier to connect with roads, one turn response time with warriors. Many novice players lose because one of their early cities gets conquered or sacked by barbarians. By having cities within one turn of each other, this will not happen. With two cities near the capital, the capital can still grow to full size, but the suburb cities may have to stop at 12. Size 12 cities are good in the late game when dealing with war weariness.

As for research, another response already noted that huts never give the tech currently being researched. By researching the cheapest techs, a player is more likely to get a more valuable one. Also if the capital is on a river and research at 100%, Ceremonial Burial may be only 12 to 16 turns and Pottery 16 to 20 turns. Other techs are more like 36 or 40 turns with 3 beakers per turn, so it is best to save those for later when there is more gold.

Most people that read about the dense build do not like it. Most novice players that try it are impressed by the early production and research. After a player gets the hang of the game and no longer feels any chance of losing on Monarch difficulty, the player can find their own style and discard my suggestions. I believe most novice players can give their early game a tremendous boost with my suggested strategy.

The strategy almosts guarantees that a player gets out of the first age on Emperor difficulty or below, no matter how bad the map, no matter how inexperienced the player. I am confident that someone who has only played Chieftain level, can survive Monarch level with this opening (3 warriors, settler, 3 more warriors, 2nd settler, plant settlers very close to capital). The player may not win, but will survive through the first age and probably be ready to win after a few games with what he learns.

 

[God]

I never overlap with the capital but i overlap with every other city and as they get further from the capital the more overlapped. Even slightly overlapped cities will grow size 25+ and produce 50 shields per turn with factories and powerplants so don't worry too much about that.

I usually go, warrior-warrior-settler-granary-settler-warrior-settler-pyramids.
The second city goes warrior-warrior-settler-granary-settler-great libary
Most of my early cities before i have met too many other civs build their own defender. I don't bother to have some spearman or warrior accompany them. Later when there are more civs they will often declare war to grab an undefend city near their border.

Don't bother with temples or culture too early. Just pump out some warriors and then settler and keep going in that way till hopefully you get Pyramids. If you don't then chage the Pyramid city immediately over to GL. If you don't get either, you're in some trouble. GL will keep you up in the tech race and you can't just keep on expanding. Pyramids help too.
On the higher difficulties, monarch+ i find it often that i cannot get both. Usually just GL if possible. On Chieften you don't need the GL and its not too essential on warlord either. On regent it helps.

Your goal is too expand as quickly as possible and GL and Pyramids help. If other civs threaten you because of small military then give them their tribute. Unless you got a good ancient UU don't bother to war.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Rob Lindsey
:soldier: :soldier: :soldier: :tank: :tank: :soldier: :soldier: :soldier:

:suicide: you'll never take me alive!

__

your strategies sound pretty sound.

 

[Sentinali]

I think the real issue here is that the game forces you into a basic strategy choice, one that you probably don't think you are making. The issue is this, when do you shift your capital/core cities from "expansion mode" to "production mode". This can be a VERY important decision.

Expansion Mode:
Build only Settlers and Warriors, maybe to odd granary or spearman. Only enough workers to have three squares improved.

Production Mode:
Building cultural improvements, and workers to improve more that three inital squares.

I often find that one small/standard maps which are fairly populated I do MUCH better. My style of play, basicallly one forced by the AI, is to grab as much land as possible in the first years. When that land runs out this is when I start with cultural improvements ect.

With the relative ineffectiveness of anchient era wonders, I rarely build a single one, relying on my sheer size in the industrial age to take whatever I need. However when I have experimented with an earlier switch to production in early save of a game that I had already played I found that I got both the GL and Colossus, but had a civ score that was about 20% lower by the time I hit 1000 AD with the same amount of cities.

The point:
on maps with a large amout of land available (only about 50% of the civ present), an early production switch should easily net your wonders, but the question remains, are they worth the loss of total game production by delaying expansion?

in maps that are crowded, the early land grab is an absolute necessity, I can't see any benefit to slowing down here only to lose ground to an already frenetic cpu expansion.

 

[Mike B]

Originally posted by Hurricane
It´s usually a bad idea to start researching Pottery or Ceremonial Burial. These are the cheapest techs, and goody huts always gives the cheapest tech available. Thus, you risk doing research in vain if you happen to get a tech from a goody hut.

Except that goody huts never give you what you are already researching. If you are lucky, by dragging out an easy tech you might be given one or two harder ones.

 

[Tassadar]

Thank you Billchin, your explanation are very good and i agree with you, it take a huge amount of turn before we are able to increase city size over 12 so overlapping is not a mistake, communication is very effective and almost no corruption.

 

[Amask]

jeez, do any of you play on emperor or deity? You can't really go exploring with your first unit unless you want a disorder.

I usually build one worker, then a defender (if I'm not in a war) in a couple of my first cities, and improve the terrain. I make the city grow with at least 3 food/per turn if there is water around (i sacrifice productivity from that tile for commerce that will be gained if the city grows). I also agree with Rob Lindsey that you have to calculate the growth rate to know when to start building settlers. I like to research bronze working first, then ceremonial burial (and warrior code if I'm in a war), and then go for literarure. And it works quite well.

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by Amask
jeez, do any of you play on emperor or deity? You can't really go exploring with your first unit unless you want a disorder.

Deity technique, and to some degree Emperor, has to be a fair bit different. At Deity I suggest putting science to zero - you can't out-research the AIs at this level but you will need money badly, for happiness, purchases, and to pay extortion demands. Definitely do send your first units exploring. At the low population levels during the expansion phase you can deal with unhappiness by using the luxury slider - with zero research you can afford to spend a bit of money keeping citizens happy. But it is important to explore - maps will be the most valuable thing you'll have for barter in Ancient Times. At Deity level I recommend not opening goody huts with warriors. Barbarians will be the most common result and they are stronger at this level, strong enough to have high odds of destroying the warrior, even if you have a terrain defense bonus. Unless you are playing an Expansionist Civ - in that case open all the huts you can.

 

[Amask]

Thanks, I really had some trouble with deity.
One more thing - I never sell contacts, and if, for example, I know french and no one else does, and they have some technology, I buy it, and sell it to all the other known civs as soon as possible. Therefore I get my profir multiplied.
About deity - when I built my first settler I have met romans with a scout and observed their five cities at population 2. How is it possible?

 

[Amask]

... profit ...