First timer questions

[Kariga]

Hello there all.
I've owned Civ 3 since 2002 and I played it ALOT that year.
99% of the hundreds of games I've played have been at chieftain difficulty level.
That was because, well.. I didn't know anything about the game and as I don't speak english as my mother language I didn't really understand it.

I built mines and fortresses in every square and never traded the AI.

However I dug this game up after a long while, blew the dust off it and started by googling "civilization forums". I found this forum and decided to take a long time reading topics and strategies.

I've now achieved a few victories at regent difficulty level and went for monarch. (I think it is monarch)
My game looks to be in a bad situation. If someone could give me just a few little hints to help me get back on track, I'd appriciate it.( I think I got the save put into this post as an attachment)

Also I have one last question: when I capture other civ's cities, the military advisor only gives me the option to raze the city (only when the city's population is 1). And I've heard it makes UN victory impossible. Are there ways around this?

Cheers

 

[TheOverseer714]

For not being a native speaker or reader, you have excellent english! Razing doesn't prevent UN victory, but it does make it harder, razing really hurts the AI attitude toward you. They can be gracious and still not vote for you, so attitude is one factor. They will always vote for themselves if they are a candidate, and will never vote for someone they are at war with. So you can rig the election by declaring war on your opponent and allying everyone against them. You need to do that before the vote, so you need to know who the opponent will be. If I recall correctly, it will be the country with the most land area(besides you). By the way, there are other ways to win, so you might try those too.

 

[vmxa]

Kariga, for sure you write better than most Americans. Your game is C3 and it looks like you had at least Rome and Cleo on your island, which you had a poor start position.

You are Scientific if the traits are the same in C3 as C3C. I know some nations did get different ones for Conquests. Anyway the thing is temples are more expensive for Sci nation than libs and libs are a better way to go, unless you need happiness badly.

You do not, so switch them. No need to make more horses right now as you have no one to fight. Get some research going and get to Republic or Monarchy.

You have no reason to not research at this point. You need settlers and workers right now.

No matter how one sees spacing, you need to tighten up when you are on an island as you have finite space to plant towns and do not want to waste it.

So place the rest of the towns closer to get more of them down. This is important when you find little land and poor land. Here you have both as you have lots of tundra, deserts and plains.

 

[Spoonwood]

YOU NEED MORE WORKERS! I can't emphasize this enough and this indicates part of the reason why I suggest newbies go for a 20k game since you can slide by with few workers. You don't have such a luxury here. You also didn't build any ancient age wonders. I'd suspect many vets. (not me) around here would compliment you on this.

Anyways... you have 2 native workers and something like 10 slaves. 2 slaves count as half a worker... at least in my mind. You should aim for 2 workers per city or thereabouts. Build settlers first though and fill that continent up. After that train lots of workers. No city has a granary. Build a granary, two, or three first, then the settlers and then the workers from those cities. Forget aqueducts in those cities until you've all the workers you want. With 2 slaves counted as a worker this means you currently have something like 7 or 8 workers overall. For what... 13 cities? You'll probably end up with 20 or so cities, so you'll need something like 33 more workers. I'd swap Rome to the Forbidden Palace immediately. I'd also make sure to found a town either on the hill on the river north of Rome or on the river corner plain (brown square) north of Rome.

I'd get contacts with other tribes as soon as you can. I'd reserach The Republic. I'd swap temples to libraries as VMXA said. You have a few clown specialists you don't need right now. Delphi currently builds a colosseum. Please read the civilopedia on what colosseums do... it won't take you a minute really. Swap Delphi to a harbor and then have it use the ocean tiles once the harbor finishes. I don't think you need to plant your towns tighter togeter on the brown and green squares. If VMXA really disagrees with this he can just watch as my Psilon fleets zap The Guardian ahead of his buggers (I know VMXA will get this joke... know how I could get a Psilon graphic up like yours VMXA?). Anyways, you do want to have your towns so that they can eventually use all the squares on the island... so fill it up and soon. Also, pack towns very closely... I'd even suggest ICS here (that's CxC spacing)... in the tundra and desert region since they won't grow much there... or will only grow from the coastal area. Northwest of Rome I spot some floodplains. Get a town there and build some workers or settlers from it... maybe even forget the granary there and irrigate those flooplain squares. I'd suspect you'll have at least one source of oil and probably at least one source of aluminum also, although I don't know. With your position currently, I'd say go for diplomatic, although space and conquest/domination still seem quite acheiveable.

Have fun.

 

[vmxa]

I cannot remember if I scanned it in from the manual or I did some sort of cut and paste from the pdf of the manual. Just in case you want one, I attached it:

 

[TheOverseer714]

Psilon, that would be... Master of Orion? Good game.

 

[Spoonwood]

Thanks vmxa, but I wanted a Psilon. And Overseer... yes... it's MOO.

 

[Kariga]

Thanks for the advices.

I did a few mistakes in that game. I attacked and destroyed zulus while we had 10 turns of peace treaty left. This made all my gpt deals impossible to do.

2nd and fatal mistake was that I started to war the babylonians when we both had same tech level and both had an army of infantry units.

I swapped to communism and war-time mobilization and put research to zero and started to make about 100 infantries and 30 artilleries.

The war was futile because the 10 defence and fortifying made the enemy infantry almost invulnerable. I was able to capture some of their cities with atrillery bombarding the defending units to 1 hitpoint...

The game ended with France's SpaceShip Victory and me being a sore loser nuked them to oblivion (they did the same to me the turn afterwards)

Now I'm going to go at it again at monarch level with huge pangaea as the Iroquois. And this time I have more experience..

 

[Kariga]

Oh and this is the current game's save. 2nd monarch game ever.
I have a feeling that I'm going to get overrun.. I've tried my best with the settlers this time.

I just found out I couldn't edit my earlier message so..double post

 

[vmxa]

Just a quick look and note it is vanilla. First how do you fall behind in tech with scouts? You are on a large map with only 7 other nations. You should have a field day with huts.

I take it that town out in the toolies was an advance tribe? I would have consider abandoning it. It is just too far away to be of any value. Now you are wasting lots of worker turns trying to connect it.

Yeah it has gems, you can get them later, now you will have to try to defend all the open land.

What in the world is that settler doing out in no mans land with no escort? Much better to use it to fill in the spaces you have now. Was it maybe a settler popped from a hut?

I would not have been in a rush to found #7 either. It will do you little good for some time. The dyes you can get in due time.

City #1 is making a settler that would be finished next turn, but the town is only size 2, so it cannot be completed. That is a waste of production. Really you are going to be better off to let the town get bit larger and then make settlers.

You should have at least irrigated the cow on the plains as you are only +2 food now. Food is more important right now than shields. Switch to a temple and let the place grow.

You have a worker doing something, but already have 4 tiles improved and there are better tiles to work anyway. You have a BG and this tile is just grass.

City #11 has three tiles with workers? It is better to gang them to get things done sooner and it is a size 1.

The plan of having settlers going all over and making large gaps has invited Az combo to come visit.

 

[vmxa]

I say this all the time, but you are going to learn more by playing std maps with std number of nations. A large map with only 7 rivals is just too easy for the human, especially with an expansion civ.

 

[Kariga]

Just a quick look and note it is vanilla. First how do you fall behind in tech with scouts? You are on a large map with only 7 other nations. You should have a field day with huts.

I was wondering about that too. I popped a settler, about 5 techs and about 9 empty huts with 3 scouts running around.

I take it that town out in the toolies was an advance tribe? I would have consider abandoning it. It is just too far away to be of any value. Now you are wasting lots of worker turns trying to connect it.

Yeah it has gems, you can get them later, now you will have to try to defend all the open land.

You're propably right on that. I had a little bit of fear on having to pay enormous money for luxuries to the AI in the future (a habit I have..)
And yes, that city was the second of the settlers I got from the huts.

What in the world is that settler doing out in no mans land with no escort? Much better to use it to fill in the spaces you have now. Was it maybe a settler popped from a hut?

I would not have been in a rush to found #7 either. It will do you little good for some time. The dyes you can get in due time.

That is also the production of my luxury addiction. (america got that silk right in front of my face)

City #1 is making a settler that would be finished next turn, but the town is only size 2, so it cannot be completed. That is a waste of production. Really you are going to be better off to let the town get bit larger and then make settlers.

It produced every settler it made with 2 turns extra time. I really couldn't think of anything else because if I produced military units between settlers it still would have taken just as long. But now that I think about it I can make warriors between settlers or let it grow.

You should have at least irrigated the cow on the plains as you are only +2 food now. Food is more important right now than shields. Switch to a temple and let the place grow.

Again my lack of knowledge bewilders me. I read off somewhere that under despotism all squares getting 2+ commerce, food or shields will have it reduced by one. If I don't remember wrong, Irrigated cow gives 3 food. (despotism makes it 2)
I have a feeling I have done something wrong there..

You have a worker doing something, but already have 4 tiles improved and there are better tiles to work anyway. You have a BG and this tile is just grass.

Ah! that one was stupid move. I thought that the city would need to grow in some point so...
But that doesn't matter since it's 425BC

City #11 has three tiles with workers? It is better to gang them to get things done sooner and it is a size 1.

Do they get things faster done if instead of worker A and worker B doing a a road in different squares they do it together one square at a time?
And yes...What was I thinking?

The plan of having settlers going all over and making large gaps has invited Az combo to come visit.

I noticed that too. I will take heed and make some adjustments.

 

[vmxa]

You lose 1 food, but you would get 3 food after the penalty. I may even irrigate both cows and share one or both with another town. It is the capitol, so shields will not be the limiting factor, food will.

In a large map with only 7 civs, I would make more scouts, maybe 5 or 6. Maybe not all right of the bat, depends.

Here is how I see workers early, if I have a 4 turn task and I have 2 workers, I get the task done in two turns. If I spread them out, I get both tasks done in 4 turns. What that means is I get my improvement benefits 2 turns sooner on one tile, if I gang them.

I want that improvement sooner, be it a road or a mine or irrigation.

As to lux, first I am not going to pay them for any, unless it is with a tech, no gold. Second I do not need the lux asap, I can wait 6 to 10 turns and get it without disrupting my empire in the case of the dyes and Ivory.

Lux that are 50 tiles away are mine, I just won't be getting them right now. I do not want to have large gaps in my empire. The AI will send units trough those gaps and then I will have to let them go or make war.

I do not want to do either in a normal game. So if I have no gaps and I am not seen as weak, they will stay out. That is what I want.

425bc, I don't care about, a bad play is a bad plan and I want to reduce those. At Monarch, you can get away with some mistakes, but I want to try to eliminate as many as I can so I can move up.

The sole reason I take the time to look at these games is to see if I can give some useful advice. I would like all players to get better and enjoy the game more.

Have you looked at making any trades? I did not not look at that, but often you can make money or get techs with well timed trades. Do not hesitate to trade AA techs as they are going to go fast.

 

[Snarkhunter]

Do they get things faster done if instead of worker A and worker B doing a a road in different squares they do it together one square at a time?
And yes...What was I thinking?

If it takes 3 turns to road a tile & you put 3 workers on it, it gets done in 1 turn. It might seem like a wash, since either way you get 3 tiles roaded in 3 turns, but if you gang up, you get the benefit of the road tile on the current turn & that is quite useful for any number of reasons: improved commerce, connectivity, speeding up movement of units after roading but in the same turn, etc.

Edit: Shoulda figured vmxa would be johnny on the spot

kk

 

[Kariga]

You lose 1 food, but you would get 3 food after the penalty. I may even irrigate both cows and share one or both with another town. It is the capitol, so shields will not be the limiting factor, food will.

In a large map with only 7 civs, I would make more scouts, maybe 5 or 6. Maybe not all right of the bat, depends.

Here is how I see workers early, if I have a 4 turn task and I have 2 workers, I get the task done in two turns. If I spread them out, I get both tasks done in 4 turns. What that means is I get my improvement benefits 2 turns sooner on one tile, if I gang them.

I want that improvement sooner, be it a road or a mine or irrigation.

As to lux, first I am not going to pay them for any, unless it is with a tech, no gold. Second I do not need the lux asap, I can wait 6 to 10 turns and get it without disrupting my empire in the case of the dyes and Ivory.

Lux that are 50 tiles away are mine, I just won't be getting them right now. I do not want to have large gaps in my empire. The AI will send units trough those gaps and then I will have to let them go or make war.

I do not want to do either in a normal game. So if I have no gaps and I am not seen as weak, they will stay out. That is what I want.

425bc, I don't care about, a bad play is a bad plan and I want to reduce those. At Monarch, you can get away with some mistakes, but I want to try to eliminate as many as I can so I can move up.

The sole reason I take the time to look at these games is to see if I can give some useful advice. I would like all players to get better and enjoy the game more.

Have you looked at making any trades? I did not not look at that, but often you can make money or get techs with well timed trades. Do not hesitate to trade AA techs as they are going to go fast.

You can't know how grateful I am for this!
You've really put effort into this!
I'm doing really well now on a different monarch save. I will post it once I've won it. I'm really confident on that.

The "I don't care about it since it's 425BC" was something I mistyped. I was supposed to say "It doesn't matter in 425BC but it can matter lately"
Boy am I absent-minded..

There's something to trading techs however..

Sometimes the AI won't trade techs even if I offer 2-3 techs in trade for his/her one tech. (is this the AA tech you mentioned?)
Also usually there is one nation that has tech superiority and the other nations are broke (0gp) So that's why I've had a lot of trouble trading techs.

Once again thanks for the time you've put into looking my savegame.

 

[vmxa]

AA is short hand for Ancient Age. Huts can pop tech, but only AA techs, so you can get them easily at most levels. It is not so easy above Monarch though, even for expansionist nations.

It is true they (AI) often have no money and you may not be able to trade, but you want to keep an eye on it. Techs have a base cost that is factored into the raw cost. The raw cost is a function of several things, but the main thing is the level and the map size.

So if you have a tech that is 160 beakers and try to trade for a tech that is 400 beakers, it is not going to work. Two techs of 160 is still not equal to one of 400. You also have intrinsic value such as a wonder or a government or a key unit or ability.

IOW if you do have value that or equal, but the one you want has Rifles, ability to mobilize or trade maps or build a wonder, it is not a fair trade. They may not trade even for a decent deal.

I would do two things 1) keep the 4000bc save and 2) post some saves and reports along the way. Start a new thread for this new game and then put up maybe a report and save after maybe 60 turns or 80.

Now you can get feedback, before you are so far down the road changes cannot be made. One of the benefits a std map has that players are more willing to look at them seriously and help. A large or a huge map is not a lot of fun to load and review.

Good luck. OH and if you do start a new thread, be sure to note it is C3 as players will load it into C3C and you will not be able to load up their save.

 

[Spoonwood]

I haven't looked at the second save, but I doubt that what VMXA has said about the trading system can get overemphasized. Warmongers control the AI by whacking them sure. But, both buliders and warmongers can at least partially control the AI by trading well. Once you get to the middle ages and especially the industrial ages in Monarch... and even more so at "higher" levels... you can get decent gpt for techs as well as getting other techs if you choose to research the right ones. In my opinion, you simply can't get enough gold... lol... that makes me think of a stupid variant... no cash-rushing and no trading gold around.

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

Damn, another foreigner!
Hey how is it going? I am a foreigner too!!
Welcome!!! Where are you from? Despite the Hebrew-Zionist name, i'm South Korean.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Civ 3 is a very international game, I see people of many nationalities on here. That enriches the site considerably, the many voices. All ages, all races, all nationalities are subject to the pax civilizationum. The only limiting thing on this forum is that you must be at least comprehensible when writing English. In 50 years, it may be Chinese, but until then it is English. But that is very off topic

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

Civ 3 is a very international game, I see people of many nationalities on here. That enriches the site considerably, the many voices. All ages, all races, all nationalities are subject to the pax civilizationum. The only limiting thing on this forum is that you must be at least comprehensible when writing English. In 50 years, it may be Chinese, but until then it is English. But that is very off topic

I just love this game