Fishing Village

Errata said:
Lawlessone, the thing about island cities like this is that every tile they work is going to be a commerce tile, they'll have good trade routes, and they'll naturally keep growing in population until they're working nearly everything in their fat cross. So once you have the light house up it doesn't take long for them to become profitable, even with expensive civics in a far flung location. Their only downside is that their production is negligible, but they benefit your productive cities by injecting extra cash and research.

The commerce thing is of course more pronounced if you're a Finanical leader, but these cities still wont lose you money for long even if you're not.

Not necessarily. Look at it this way, you can have a max of 20 tiles. Without being finiacial that is 40 commerce. At a research rate of 90% that is 4 gold. Maintenance costs can easily exceed that figure even with a courthouse cutting it in half.

I realize that is a 'worst case'. I just think you need to consider the distance from your Capital when you consider if this is a good place for a city.
 
Considering the gold produced is irrelevant. You need to compare the commerce produced to the cost of the city. Maybe you'll have to go to 80% some of the time, but it'll be 80% of a bigger number. As long as the commerce the city produces is more than its cost, you come out ahead - regardless of what your science rate is.

The true income of the city is the 40, not the 4.
 
LawLessOne: Not necessarily. Look at it this way, you can have a max of 20 tiles. Without being finiacial that is 40 commerce. At a research rate of 90% that is 4 gold. Maintenance costs can easily exceed that figure even with a courthouse cutting it in half.

If a civ is running 90% science, post-Astronomy, then the extra maintenance in this city won't likely hurt the economy too much. I think the science boost is more than worth it in most cases.

ekanata: 3. Is it possible to send workboat crossing ocean, to allow more mature costal city provide the work boat (I though work boat caught whale in ocean)?

As stated before, workboats cannot cross the ocean.
 
Beamup said:
Considering the gold produced is irrelevant. You need to compare the commerce produced to the cost of the city. Maybe you'll have to go to 80% some of the time, but it'll be 80% of a bigger number. As long as the commerce the city produces is more than its cost, you come out ahead - regardless of what your science rate is.

The true income of the city is the 40, not the 4.

I disagree. One of the most difficult parts of Civ4 is the financial. A city that doesnt 'pull' its own is a 'drag' on the rest of the empire. If you get too many such cities your empire will 'crash and burn'.
 
Errata said:
Oggums, you can't send 2 work boats from another city across ocean tiles. Work boats are limited to coast.

Work boats can go across ocean tiles within your cultural borders.

Wodan
 
misterfilmgeek said:
If a civ is running 90% science, post-Astronomy, then the extra maintenance in this city won't likely hurt the economy too much. I think the science boost is more than worth it in most cases.

If there isnt any other place to put a city then sure. The extra science may be worth the extra maintenance cost. There are also strategic considerations. You might want a city there because it is in a good defensive position or just to keep anyone else from getting it.

All of these are considerations but I just dont think that you can say it is always good to build an island city.
 
LawLessOne said:
I disagree. One of the most difficult parts of Civ4 is the financial. A city that doesnt 'pull' its own is a 'drag' on the rest of the empire. If you get too many such cities your empire will 'crash and burn'.
While what you state in the above quote is, strictly speaking, true, your conclusions are completely false.

A city does not pull its own weight on gold. It pulls it on commerce. Since you can freely adjust the sliders, how much of that commerce ends up as gold and how much as beakers is entirely irrelevant.

To demonstrate this, let's suppose the rest of your civ generates a total of 200 commerce, and your maintenance costs are 20 gold/turn. Hence you run 90% science and produce 180 beakers/turn with a balanced budget. Further suppose that the new city would generate 40 commerce and cost 28 - more than doubling your maintenance costs.

Based on your analysis, the city would only produce 4 gold, which is less than 28, so you should not found the city.

Based on a correct analysis, you will generate a total of 240 commerce with the new city, with total costs of 48 gold/turn. So, you run 80% science and produce 192 beakers/turn with a balanced budget. You've lowered your science rate to do it, but you're still producing more beakers.

Now, this is an idealized example. It'll almost never come out that pretty, with balanced budgets in both cases. But in any case, you can run, say, 80% some of the time and 90% some of the time to duplicate the effect.

Because you can adjust the sliders freely, comparing a city's cost to its gold production at your current slider settings is completely invalid and gives you NO useful information whatsoever. The comparison that actually tells you whether a city pulls its own weight is commerce to cost, NOT gold to cost.
 
Thank you Beamup. Some people seem to think that if only they can run at 80%+ research that that must automatically make them the tech leader, without even taking a look at 80% of what.
 
LawLessOne said:
If there isnt any other place to put a city then sure. The extra science may be worth the extra maintenance cost. There are also strategic considerations. You might want a city there because it is in a good defensive position or just to keep anyone else from getting it.

All of these are considerations but I just dont think that you can say it is always good to build an island city.

Which is why I qualified my statement by saying "won't likely" and "in most cases". There will always be a case where something is bad when in most cases it's good, or even excellent. The experienced and/or observant player will learn to recognize these situations.
 
Wodan said:
Work boats can go across ocean tiles within your cultural borders.
Fair enough, but in this case those borders didn't extend to the island, which is typical.

ekanata said:
1. Is it possible to build city on the snow surface?
2. If a friend land on the island, and suddenly war broke, will they magically teleported of the island?
2. Yes. Its sometimes good to build cities on unworkable tiles (or very low value tiles like tundra), because the base value that the city tile produces will be the same as usual (exceptions being an extra hammer on hill plains or a bonus from settling on top of a resource), thus making the unworkable tile productive.

3. Yes. When borders become un-open, units will be transported outside the borders, even if that means going across water.
 
InFlux5 said:
I have an aversion to building Work Boats first in new cities, but now I see that in certain situations it is the best choice. On a larger land-mass, I always feel the turns of production are being wasted since a Work Boat improves only one tile while Workers improve many (health bonuses aside.)

I enjoy building workboats first in new cities with fish/clams etc, because the city continues to grow while the boat is under construction--unlike workers which halt growth. Then, even better, once the workboat has added its +3 food to the tile, the worker can be built even faster since the food goes straight into its production.

EDIT: spelling and grammar. :)
 
Copied from RB7
Sirian said:
The basics of a Fishing Village are:
1. Culture (to pull in all seafood and resources).
2. Granary. (Granary before Lighthouse in all cases, because of Slavery!)
3. Lighthouse.
4. Forge. (Forges increase slavery production as well as normal production).
5. If running Organized Religion civic, the state religion. (Increases slavery on buildings).
 
VoiceOfUnreason, 1 and 5 are the same issue, if you bring a missionary to the village with your settler, then having the state religion takes care of increasing cultural borders. You dont need much culture, because your culture will only expand to 2 squares across the water anyway. Point 2 doesn't particularly make sense, because before the lighthouse your population will not tend to grow large enough to even make good use of slavery. A 100% food production bonus from coast trumps a 50% growth bonus.

It seems like that list might have been oriented towards a new village along the coast of a large island or continent, not a one tile island.
 
Errata said:
Point 2 doesn't particularly make sense, because before the lighthouse your population will not tend to grow large enough to even make good use of slavery. A 100% food production bonus from coast trumps a 50% growth bonus.

Not quite 100% - the lighthouse doesn't improve the city production at all, and only 50% on the unimproved fish. You don't get 50% overall improvement until you are up to size 4 (2+3+3+2+2 instead of 2+2+2+1+1). And if the fish are hooked up, it takes a larger population than that.

It's probably not a big deal either way. Or I'm overlooking something else....
 
Errata, I think he's right on the Granary before Lighthouse, because of the Fish resources. No resources, build lighthouse first. Yes resources, build Granary first.

The city will grow just fine to size 3... adding a lighthouse will provide what, 15% increase in speed for Slavery? The Granary, on the other hand, with provide around 35% increase.

Of course, it's somewhat of a moot point, because with Slavery your first two buildings will almost certainly be these two, and Slavery is fast enough that the order you do them in isn't such a big deal.

Wodan
 
It will always have strategic value. Like Guam in the pacific. Your boats can go there to repair and your planes can rebase there. Also if you get it up high in people you can make it have lots of specialists and have it be a great person producer city.
 
Back
Top Bottom