Fix the 5th trash game

Looking through the saves I notice I was the only player who put any real effort into improving military. Obviously I could have used the cash to rush build improvements and used hammers for building and/or research. Given that at the end of it all I was still solidly in last place power-wise I reckon this was probably a mistake. Any comments?
 
Looking through the saves I notice I was the only player who put any real effort into improving military. Obviously I could have used the cash to rush build improvements and used hammers for building and/or research. Given that at the end of it all I was still solidly in last place power-wise I reckon this was probably a mistake. Any comments?

I made a half hearted attempt at a military but as the turns passed it became more and more an defense against a rabid Bismark force. Mostly because it started to look possible to win. I didn't consider rush buying though.
 
Looking through the saves I notice I was the only player who put any real effort into improving military. Obviously I could have used the cash to rush build improvements and used hammers for building and/or research. Given that at the end of it all I was still solidly in last place power-wise I reckon this was probably a mistake. Any comments?

you may have overlooked the fact that I :
- got attacked
- hit back
- took a bunch of cities.

believe it or not, I had to build those tanks ;).
Anyway, seeing that war was unlikely, I didn't put much effort in it before hand, and I see it as a mistake indeed.
 
Here's my save, at last. I'll write and add the comments.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61698/Trashy_gandhi_jevind_AD-1900.CivWarlordsSave

Spoiler :
The Apollo Program will be finished in Gergovia in 11 rounds. The bad news is that Wang Kon and Roosevelt have built it already. For some mysterious reason, neither is mentioned in the Victories display even though Wang Kon has already built two or three spaceship parts.

1822: Settler finished i Madras. Keeping him there for the time being. (He's still there.)
1828: Persian revolt in Bombay! Not good. (It lasted for several turns.)
1832: Cyrus completes the Kremlin.
1834: Researched Electricity. Going for Artillery.
Started building Ironworks in Gergovia.
Began to build Broadway in Delhi, using the GE for the purpose. Something has to be done if we don't want to lose Bombay.
1836: Peace between Bismarck and Cyrus-Brennus.
1838: Great Scientist born in Delhi.
Roosevelt finishes the Pentagon. Wang Kon finishes the Apollo Program.
1846: Broadway built in Delhi. Normally I would have saved the GE Engineer and used him to build the Space Elevator, but for one thing we really needed to get some increased culture and happiness, and for another I think all our cities are too far from the equator anyway.
1848: Trade deal with Cyrus - horses for dye and hit musicals.
I also made a Defensive Pact with him. I simply don't want to get into a war with someone while trying to build the spaceship.
1840: Researched Artillery. Started to research Rocketry.
1852: Brennus renounced his vassalage to Cyrus.
Made a trade deal with Bismarck. Every little penny helps...
1860: Bismarck annulled our Open Borders agreement.
Turned down offer from Ausgustus trading Artillery for Communism.
1868: Discovered Rocketry. Started to research Fission using the Great Scientist.
1870: Started to build Apollo Program in Gergovia.
1876: Sold Rocketry to Cyrus for Communism + 1 310 gold.
1882: Discovered Fission. Began to research Radio, aiming for Satellites.
1890: Refused to give Fission to Roosevelt.
1892: At last, Bombay's borders have expanded so that the city is connected directly to the rest of our territory. (I am building the Globe Thatre there to prevent any further revolts.)
1894: Cyrus demanded I break off relations with the vile Romans, and I agreed to it.
1900. Roosevelt finishes Apollo Program.

I am no longer giving Cyrus iron. But I have sucked up to him in so many other ways that I don't think it matters. Both Roosevelt and Wang Kon have had Golden Ages, and Wang Kon has built the Taoist shrine. We have horses -I used the free upgrading of Oliver Cromwell, of course. We can cancel the horse tarding agreement with Cyrus any time we wish, but so far, cavary units still have their uses. I have built a few. I also upgraded one Rifleman to Infantry.
 
Öjevind Lång;5487844 said:
For some mysterious reason, neither is mentioned in the Victories display even though Wang Kon has already built two or three spaceship parts.

i think i know why. the game knows that you know about wang kon, since you see the map, so it uses his name in golden age messages and stuff. after i bought roos's world map, it gave me messages about augustus caesar even tho i shouldn't have known whether it was gus or julius.

but look at the scoreboard. you still never actually met wang :eek:! so that means he can't show up on F8 i think. roos wouldn't show up yet since he hasn't built any actual parts.

i'm about to eat dinner then i'll open saves again for actual voting purposes.
 
i think i know why. the game knows that you know about wang kon, since you see the map, so it uses his name in golden age messages and stuff. after i bought roos's world map, it gave me messages about augustus caesar even tho i shouldn't have known whether it was gus or julius.

but look at the scoreboard. you still never actually met wang :eek:! so that means he can't show up on F8 i think. roos wouldn't show up yet since he hasn't built any actual parts.

Wow, yes, that must be the explanation! Thanks. And by the way, congratulations for making Quattromaster!
 
Ojevind i'm not cabert, but i'd say go ahead and vote if you're decided. if he says "we don't want his votes" then fb can just not include them, right?

pigswill: my thinking on the military question. i knew that i couldn't boost my power enough to be worth squat in the time given. was not going to happen, period.

my thoughts are directly applicable only to my game obviously. my risk/benefit analysis was:
- bismarck is busy
- gus likes me. thank goodness, since his power is so great that if he DoWs me i get obliterated instantly, whether manhattan project is built or not. there's no way i can fight him, why try.
- wang doesn't like me. he lives by roosevelt, who i have a DP with. so, i'll hope that wang looks at roos's power and wisely goes "oh yeah, i won't attack her cuz i'd get my korean butt kicked"
- cyrus is friendly and has been forever
- brennus can't declare war. then when he became a non-vassal he was pleased and occupied.

production/research-wise: i knew for certain that even if i went 100% military, my best efforts would not bump me up significantly on the power chart. not even close. if i tried, i could do enough to make a difference defending my cities if a war happened; but i could not do anything prep-wise to prevent a war. defending my cities but not having researched the techs/built the infrastructure in the meantime to build the spaceship would mean game-over in any case.

so, i didn't do the military thing. i signed the DP with roos as insurance (hopefully) against wang, and headed on the space track. the DP seemed safe to me in because nobody is going to DoW roos. he's not anybody worst enemy and he is far and above Wang in power; wang's the one i consider most likely to attack me. i don't think i'll have to be the Defender in the Pact at all, and hope i won't have to use it to call in my Defender but if i do, it's a warm fuzzy.

note: you didn't focus on military to the extreme of ignoring space, you did a nice mix. i was just explaining the workings of my brain if you or anybody was curious.

i am once again surprised at all you heathens :lol:. not really, i can see the reasons for going either way. just another instance of cam and i sharing the same brainwaves, the only ones still jewish, we both felt we needed those diplomatic points with our neighbors. i had plenty of happiness options, and making nicey-nice was worth losing 10% science IMO.
 
4 votes are in. I think two are missing. The players should be:

Cam
Cabert
KMad
Mice
Ojevind
Pigswill

Am I right?

So far, we have two very strong contenders. I'm gonna need both of them for a sentence. I'll be back in about 10 hours to check. I need some :sleep:...

P.S.: Kmad made into Quattromaster??? Congratulations! :trophy:
 
hehe yeah i made QM, thank you :) but rest assured, i'm still and always will be permanoob. got the major gauntlet done this month, it was a monarch cultural victory game and on my second try i got it handily. first try gandhi built the UN and passed emancipation, took away my caste, launched 4 turns before my 3rd would have hit legendary. my second try i played as gandhi and that solved that!

so then i needed emperor and deity wins, easily cheesified ... duel map, future start. run an engineer in your first city starting on day 0, chop a couple workers, spam settlers like there's no tomorrow. use the GE you get from the forge to build the eiffel tower. settle cities strategically to squash the only AI opponent. if you do it right, his cities will suffer so badly he'll only make 3-5 ship parts by the time you get enough tiles/pop to reach the domination limit *giggle*. mind you, all the research is done before the game starts! but i got asoka's first 3 cities down to only controlling the city tile itself by the end :lol:. no cheating, but no skill required either! then i rushed thru the other games i was missing, like a certain number of leaders, i played duel/settler games and killed their capitals early, that sort of thing. all the others i'd done long ago, the real way, while waiting for a major gauntlet that was within my limited abilities.

i've come *this* close to winning deity for real (altho with handpicked opponents) OCC. non-OCC, forget it, landrush is insane. haven't bothered with emperor, i want a deity win first, am i odd?
 
4 votes are in. I think two are missing. The players should be:

Cam
Cabert
KMad
Mice
Ojevind
Pigswill

Am I right?

So far, we have two very strong contenders. I'm gonna need both of them for a sentence. I'll be back in about 10 hours to check. I need some :sleep:...

P.S.: Kmad made into Quattromaster??? Congratulations! :trophy:

right, and congrats to Kmad
 
hahaha no way, moonsinger cares about milking and gets super high scores, the entire opposite other end of cheesy! she's amazing in her thought process, and actually is what made firaxis change the anarchy rules since she exploited them to get HUGE scores :lol:.

ojevind, cabert is right about globe theatre. i got bombay down to zero chance of revolt early in my game. if you check my save, i took the troops out on the final turn. they're standing right next to bombay so you can see just how many troops i had in there. i'm not sure how many were overkill on the first turn, but i'd bet at least half of those i needed, probably 3/4s at first. it is definitely "a lot of troops" that you need.
 
ojevind, globe theater doesn't prevent revolts.
If you want to prevent revolts, you need to put a lot of troops into the city.

Oh, I see. I did know about the need for lots of troops in revolt-prone cities. Even so, a city with the Globe Theatre in it is very unlikely to rebel.
 
ah ok. i thought you were thinking in previous versions of civ mode. there, the more happy citizens, the less chance of revolt. in civ4, it's all about culture, so globe doesn't help any more than any other type of culture. hermitage is probably better now that i think of it, but i can't remember which is more hammers to build. but you did save it :). and not everybody can say that can they?
 
Well, even without one of the votes, I have a winner. The second place would only tie with the first place and I'd have the Minerva's vote, right? So, I'm happy to announce:

Cam_H, congratulations!

A link to Cam's post, if anyone needs some reviewing and downloading. :blush:
 
Thanks all - hopefully we can all engineer a space win and avoid invasion at the same time! Even at this late stage there are a couple of interesting tech' choices, and there's still quite a bit of cash in the bank for a few rushes as may be deemed necessary.

I felt that all the submissions in this round had a lot going for them; Pigswill presented a strong overall submission going after Medicine (as KMad did) was a pretty good move. Cabert really did turn a 'cloud' into a 'silver lining' with some solid military success that led to great empire expanision. Mice's Aluminium really put the game in a very solid spot that was supported by some reliable play. Öjevind's decision to go pretty well straight after Apollo with few turns to go put his game in a competitive position ... while KMad followed a similar path to my own and I felt was very well executed.

I am not sure who's game was deemed the second strongest submission, but whose ever it was I promise to get out of her head!

... and cam you crack me up! in some ways we're so different (i trade much more like cabert than you ...

I must say that when it comes to combat-oriented games that I am very uninclined to make trades of priority technologies for optional technologies - e.g. having a monopoly on Military Tradition only to trade it around for Banking, Optics, Theology, and Engineering might mean a huge overall :science: gain but it could well be a strategic loss. While my intention was never to prove to the roster that I actually was able to make trades, I think that I've been far more opportunistic than my P666-01 and P666-04 submissions given our game victory condition, generally weak military position, and need for allies. I'm not saying that being miserly with tech' is necessarily the way to go in Domination / Diplomation / Conquest games, but I acknowledge that it's the way I tend to play. Perhaps if we had taken over Germany in the early game in P666-05 and our self-research capacity was better, then maybe I might have fallen back to more of a 'Scrooge'-like playstyle!

I look forward to seeing how we all go from here - and that includes you Mr. Fbelintani! - and again well done to all! :)

Cabert - why don't you replay the round if you felt your micro-management was poor?
 
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