Fix the 5th trash game

[cabert]

Cabert - why don't you replay the round if you felt your micro-management was poor?

because hindsight is 20/20 . I'm pretty sure I could make a take off in the 50es.




some hints for you guys out there :
*) cam gave us a bunch of great people.
Among those are a few engineers.
A golden age during the final rush for space is certainly the single most powerful move available.
Another good use for engineers is to rush the space elevator(we need satellites to build this damn thing).
Another good use for engineers is to be settled in the IW city.

I believe choosing wisely in this area is a key for a fast win.

*) we don't have aluminium.
cyrus has some, and he is ready to trade it.

I believe getting aluminium for fast building the apollo program is another key. note that you don't need aluminium for every space part. Some use copper as bonus resource.


*) we're jewish in a globally non jewish world.
diplomacy is probably a non issue at this stage, but getting attacked could be bad .

*) using spies to check your neighbours is certainly wise.
sabotaging is only useful if you fear you're going to lose something (a wonder or the space race). Risking diplomatic hits for no reason certainly isn't wise.

*) Micromanagement is indeed required for this final part.
workers can give you the little push you need to finish one turn earlier (or more than that).
short list of MM tricks I can think of:
- chopping (not much forest left, but still not 0). You cannot $rush or poprush projects, but you can chop them.
- starvation production. You don't need to grow (except if you want a better score) to finish faster. A workshop over a farm for 10 turns can make you lose 1 pop point and win 2/3 turns for the final part (or for a wonder/project).
- storaged overflow. This can be used for one or 2 "hightech" parts. You start a few buildings, don't finish them, then you $rush them all in row (=1 /turn) to accumulate overflow hammers. Doing this well can be like starting to build a late part 4 turns before having the tech.

 

[pigswill]

You can pick up aluminium from Cyrus fairly easily:

Spoiler :

cancel current resource for cash trades.

I'm debating if I should burn 2 GE on space elevator and gamble on fusion GE for last minute golden age or use 1 GE and lose a turn or two of research to acculumate cash to rush it . The second option may be safer but then I end up with a spare GE if I get fusion first. To get SE I need to divert to satellites before fission/fusion. Its all a bit tricky .

 

[Cam_H]

^

Thought of the same thing myself.

I think that as much as I'd have liked The Internet to pick up Rocketry for us, it's better if we at least get that by self-research and make a start on Apollo. Robotics or Fusion after that? Is The Internet worth chasing at all given our lack of big production cities and a pretty solid tech' position. To what extent do we need to protect ourselves from a military perspective, and do we need to pay loads of for heaps of Spy activity? The Korea war couldn't be more timely, but what will be its impact?

Still a few questions. Good thoughts though chaps.

 

[KMadCandy]

I believe getting aluminium for fast building the apollo program is another key. note that you don't need aluminium for every space part. Some use copper as bonus resource.


*) we're jewish in a globally non jewish world.
diplomacy is probably a non issue at this stage, but getting attacked could be bad .

yeah the number of games where that copper to brennus for 3 gpt trade from waaaaay back was still going on cracked me up!

true, being attacked can lead to bad things. but sometimes it's hard to figure out whether going FR will help prevent a war or make one more likely . that was another interesting angle to me about this game in the later stages, how most folks went FR, but me and cam (that spooky brain wave thing) changed back on the saves that had us in FR to start out with.

i kind of think diplomacy is never a non issue *giggle*, but you may be right. i was reading a report of someone's game where he won OCC cultural victory (PA with an AI gandhi). it was very close, hatty might have launched, but she was beaten to 3GD by one turn and then someone declared war on her when she seemed to not be expecting it, turned out perfect for the player he hadn't expected it either! i haven't tried ours yet (other than the one i did earlier and gus smoked me, sneaky jerkface) since now i'm tied up in my own OCC trying to pick which AI to PA with and settle my GAs in his city. i can't culture bomb him, it's a very very odd sort of game!!!

 

[cabert]

good discussion so far, and I'm sorry I can't tell more about the internet or the space elevator.
I already played the game and it's a bit too spoilerish IMHO.

 

[pigswill]

A crushing and humiliating defeat!!

Spoiler :

Cabert beat me by one turn; 1961 space victory. Nearest rival (augustus) hadn't completed fusion when I launched; but that's not the point .
I did indeed use both GEs for elevator and got free GE from fusion for golden age. I also built the internet which saved me one turn!

 

[KMadCandy]

Spoiler :

hahaha would you rather beat the AIs or cabert? no contest, cabert all the way! i love it!

 

[Öjevind Lång]

ah ok. i thought you were thinking in previous versions of civ mode. there, the more happy citizens, the less chance of revolt. in civ4, it's all about culture, so globe doesn't help any more than any other type of culture. hermitage is probably better now that i think of it, but i can't remember which is more hammers to build. but you did save it . and not everybody can say that can they?

I stand corrected, but only half corrected. The Globe Theatre gives a huge cultural boost to the city it is in. I remember when I played with Augustus as my neighbour and tried to assimilate one of his cities. Finally, after I had popepd three Great Artists in the nearest of my cities and done various other things, that city had shrunk to a few tiles and was entirely surrounded by my territory, but it refused to flip to me. Then I discovered that the cunning man had built the Globe Thatre in it. And of corse, since he generates a lot of culture points naturally each turn, that contribuetd too, of course. Even so, building the Globe Theatre in a city you want to ensure doesn't flip would often do the trick, methinks.

 

[KMadCandy]

exactly! it's not the happiness of the globe theatre in particular. it's that it generates culture. in cases where the city has a lot of food, i'm wrong about hermitage. globe theatre can be the best choice of culture buildings where food is plentiful, since it lets you add to the culture output by running more artists than other cities can when not under caste system. your thinking was definitely on the right track altho partly based on wrong assumptions. mine often is as well .

 

[cabert]

Spoiler :

hahaha would you rather beat the AIs or cabert? no contest, cabert all the way! i love it!

caught you : you shouldn't read spoilers if you haven't played

Spoiler :

I'm sure some of us will beat 1960 finish time.
hints : use the GPs wisely, build wonders wisely, MM as much as needed.

I stand corrected, but only half corrected. The Globe Theatre gives a huge cultural boost to the city it is in. I remember when I played with Augustus as my neighbour and tried to assimilate one of his cities. Finally, after I had popepd three Great Artists in the nearest of my cities and done various other things, that city had shrunk to a few tiles and was entirely surrounded by my territory, but it refused to flip to me. Then I discovered that the cunning man had built the Globe Thatre in it. And of corse, since he generates a lot of culture points naturally each turn, that contribuetd too, of course. Even so, building the Globe Theatre in a city you want to ensure doesn't flip would often do the trick, methinks.

GT produces 6 cpt. that's not a lot.
it costs 300 hammers.

For the same cpt, you could, under Free religion, send 3 missionaries of 3 different religions and build 3 temples. total hammers 360, but with 120 hammers produced in other cities and 240 hammers with 100 bonus. So it's a lot faster, and equivalent to 240 hammers.
You could also build a library, a university and a temple for a total of 370 hammers, of which 280 (university and temple) have a production bonus, making it equivalent to 230 hammers.

Of course if bombay was a useful city, going to grow and using whipping a lot, i'd go GT too, but clearly bombay isn't going to do any good. Maybe some marginal science.
But if you need to put 300 hammers just for keeping it, you could have had 300 beakers from building science and that's a much better contribution.

exactly! it's not the happiness of the globe theatre in particular. it's that it generates culture. in cases where the city has a lot of food, i'm wrong about hermitage. globe theatre can be the best choice of culture buildings where food is plentiful, since it lets you add to the culture output by running more artists than other cities can when not under caste system. your thinking was definitely on the right track altho partly based on wrong assumptions. mine often is as well .

using the available troops certainly was the best way to go.
Or leaving this city altogether because it wasn't worth keeping .

A crushing and humiliating defeat!!

Spoiler :

Cabert beat me by one turn; 1961 space victory. Nearest rival (augustus) hadn't completed fusion when I launched; but that's not the point .

I did indeed use both GEs for elevator and got free GE from fusion for golden age. I also built the internet which saved me one turn!

did you chop the last piece of forest?
did you workshop all tiles around your city?
that makes a turn easily

 

[KMadCandy]

caught you : you shouldn't read spoilers if you haven't played

i played another save to finish earlier, so i've played in a sense! it wasn't mine, it wasn't yours, it wasn't cam's. it was one i figured would be fun (i bet they all will tho). and my theory was that so-called spoiling of this one wouldn't ruin the spirit of the SG since we're not submitting to compare and vote. bop me on the head if you want, i don't care. you're made of felt it won't hurt *giggle*.

Spoiler :

i peeked again. mansa musa as much as needed? you trying to confuse me? maybe you mean mass media?

 

[cabert]

now now now
what do we have here?
a quattromaster redhead rebelling against my almighty rule?

Beware, under the felt is a sledgehammer

 

[FeedBack]

Man, I couldn't help listening to this South Park quote...

RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!

 

[pigswill]

Less chat, more play .

 

[KMadCandy]

ok a dragon saying something is scarier than kermit! gonna play.

 

[KMadCandy]

/sigh AI logic at its finest. copied from what i just posted in the funny screenshots thread:

Spoiler :

those cottages were recently built, hovering over shows that one still has 3 turns to grow to a hamlet. so he cottaged over farms on those tiles. and now he's changed his mind, and he's farming them again.

the city to the north, Boston, is building his spaceship cockpit. that's an important thing, so you probably don't want to cut off the chain irrigation to it! but that's what he did. at least he's about to fix it.

it's actually not his fault that there aren't any railroads. he has no coal and i'm not about to give him any. i kinda wish he did, it would make my spy's journey between cities quicker.

even with the help of his stupidity, i kind of get the feeling i'm gonna lose.
edit: all done.

Spoiler :

1967. closest competitor was roos, he had 6 turns on his last part, the stasis chamber. gus had built manhattan and several of them were building SDI and ICBMs ! i of course built not a single darn troop, but i did sign and keep a DP with roos *giggle*. gus built the UN and passed everything except free speech and no nukes.

the korean war was odd. cyrus razed two cities, that was all the action except for pillaging, but eventually wang capitulated. cyrus was top in score but very behind in tech. used both GEs for space elevator, i was the first to have both satellites and robotics combo. planned it out to get another GP from frankfurt soon with 0 chance of a GS and got a golden age that way, since i also had 0 chance of the fusion GE . i think i triggered the GA too late tho. i hardly ever play games out to space race finish!

the internet got me fission, flight, mass media, medicine, and one ultimate. the ultimate was when roos came demanding genetics and i refused. he said "fine, see if we help you when you need it." as soon as i clicked ok, the screen came up that i had learned Composites, from the internet, since he'd researched it earlier and bismarck had just finished it. hahaha roos, you helped me without meaning to! i detoured from FO to rocketry to start apollo first and then backtracked to FO to build internet.

 

[cabert]

hey guys?
aren't you going to enjoy an easy space win?
Cam gave us an almost ideal position, go for it!

Since no other round is coming after this, you have all the time you need, but honestly this is played out (with a lot of MM!) within an hour.

I hope all of you enjoyed this game and/or learned something.
If some of you want to start another game in this format, there is no patent on it. I won't have the time to do it, not even to participate, but I certainly would lurk. (my ghost will haunt every trash game out there )

 

[Roland Johansen]

I have been quietly lurking in this thread after I bailed out, but I wanted to congratulate everyone on the space ship victory. Since the half way position wasn't that great, I can say that you all did a good job.

 

[KMadCandy]

thank you roland! you really were quiet, i was wondering if you ever got back from your trip. i hope it was a good one

 

[mice]

First loss posted

Rossevelt beat me by 2 turns in 1962

KMad, you won in '67 and roosey had 6 turns to go ? I wonder what the difference was?

I secured aluminium, got the elevator, got a golden age at the perfect time, internet netted only M.media and flight.

Didnt chop at all, but think the loss was probably due to not agressively trading to hurt Roosevelt.

Are well ... win some ya loss some.

Cabert, thanks for looking after the game this time. I think it was hard work. Sounds like your civ time is limited these days. Mine too .