FlavourMod 2

[Cylnar]

Were you ever able to confirm (and if confirmed, fix) the bug I reported about certain resources not spawning - or spawning rarely - with your End of Winter option enabled? I had noticed the map ended up (by the end of the warming period) with no reagents or sugar and very few gems; I confirmed this using WorldBuilder. There may have been others but those were the ones I noticed (I was playing FF as the Scions and noticed it was impossible to upgrade to archmage/Alcinus III and I was missing some of the resources I needed to make some of my units cheaper to build).

It might have had something to do with the way the script appears to dynamically add resources as the tiles change due to warming (maybe it doesn't, I know nothing about scripting either in XML or Python). If I recall correctly, in vanilla EoW the resources are actually already present on the map (and can often be gotten at even through the ice). Perhaps if you changed your EoW to work like this (and maybe the FF team can prohibit working ice terrain to all civs except Illians and maybe Doviello) that might solve the problem (and simplify your script).

It also occurs to me (if my theory is correct) that flavor starts might also be impacted by the fact that some resources are simply not present on the map when the game starts. That said, your EoW is otherwise very cool and flavorful and if your script could be adjusted to spawn appropriate numbers of each resource (and track use of Blessing of Amathaon if it doesn't already) I would use it in most of my games for the flavor.

 

[Ashdrake]

hey man,

i have a huge problem with your mod, aka it loads slowwwww
Let me explain.

I have FFH 2 v0.40F installed with bts 3.17.
I usually play huge maps with 18players on noble, raging barbs no technology trading, livin world, barbarian world, double of events options enabled.
so i download your mod, install it, then start my normal map type. I waited for around 5 to 10MINUTES for the thing to load.
Now IF i do not use your flavour start location option, the same page loads in about 30seconds.

My system is Phenom 9950 bb 2.6gh (the best of the line) 4gb rams, 9800gtx+, windows vista 64 bits, dedicated HDD for games (swap is on another HDD), both of them Sata 2. (no i'm not bragging)

If I use a smaller map or fewer numbers of players, then the loading times decrease exponentialy, for example i started a 12 players hugemap same settings, it loaded in about 1 minute. I know that the system has to calculate each players position individually versus the big threats such as the seppulcher and the like, but still 10 minutes for a loading time is exagerated (note i initially just wanted to say it doesnt work since i left it around for 5 mins then just ctrl-alt-deled out and in my task manager it was showing at not-responding so i closed it, but i left it open and went and grabbed a cup of coffee and when i came back the map loaded).

Can you please look into this. Much appreciated.

Also another quick question, if you use flavor mod but you start the map as end of winter option, how will the PC know where to put your city.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Were you ever able to confirm (and if confirmed, fix) the bug I reported about certain resources not spawning - or spawning rarely - with your End of Winter option enabled?

The way End of Winter works:

1. Generate a normal map.
2. Transform the map before game start into a winter map.
3. Add a counter to each tile counting backwards.
4. If the counter reaches zero reveal the old tile.

As you can see it's easy to test if all ressources reappear. I just have to count them before I transform the map into a winter version of itself and after winter is over. That's exactly what I did (automated of course) and as far as I can tell from this test every ressource generated by the underlying map script will eventually return.

You shouldn't forget, that there is an issue with Blessing of Amathaon. Sometimes it tries to place too many ressources. Since the ressource placing is done in a serial way it may happen, that there is simply not enough space left to place all types of ressources.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Small compatibility update for 0.40g. No other changes. Get 2.2.2 via the link in the first post. Merry Christmas.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Merry Xmas to you too

 

[Blakmane]

Hi Jean!

Merry Christmas =)

Unfortunately I have your first new version bug using the 'peak soften percent' map option causes the game to freeze on the load screen.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's weird, soften peak percent works fine for me. what size are you trying to play on? maybe it's not frozen, it's just slooooooooow

 

[Blakmane]

size doesn't seem to make any difference. I've tried with duel and small sizes. It doesn't move past 'initialising', and i've left it for a good 20 mins without change. Usually maps (even with end of winter) take at max 10 seconds to load.

 

[Jean Elcard]

size doesn't seem to make any difference. I've tried with duel and small sizes. It doesn't move past 'initialising', and i've left it for a good 20 mins without change. Usually maps (even with end of winter) take at max 10 seconds to load.

That's extremely weird. It's working for me and I can't reproduce your bug. Which system are you using? XP, Vista or Linux?

I know there are some places where I could do something about the speed, but I can't do anything about it not working at all, if I can't reproduce it.

 

[Ashdrake]

Hey jean,

a few more information about that issue i was having.

If you use any map type with the default number of AI, dual -> 1 AI + you, -> small -> etc (sorry dont know the numbers exactly) then the map loads normally (a bit slower with the flavor mod on). If you put more AI than the map has defaulted on, for ex a huge map with 20AI you will notice a very slow loading times (like 5mins or so). Also for me it didnt work a few times because it was just on intializing but got bored and ctrl-alt-del to desktop (vista) so the program jammed, if i leave it alone it will load eventually.

As for the blakmane, if you use vista, the OS has a thing that when the program becomes unresponsible it just shuts it down (this happens if you ctrl-del or alt-tab while loading).

Also regarding the MOD itself.
Why does the loifajar (the elf good guys) start in the tundra? (lakes map) This happens on 80% of the games i played those guys start right up with the doviello in the norther tundra area. Also after the map loads and i enter the editor to see where the AI is positioned, almost all of them appear at an equal height from eachother AI and from the equator (the desert/jungle area), this isnt quite right as far as i know.

Hope this info is helpful to you.

 

[Jean Elcard]

If you put more AI than the map has defaulted on, for ex a huge map with 20AI you will notice a very slow loading times (like 5mins or so).

That's a lot for a machine like yours. It takes exactly 155 seconds on an old Atholon XP 2500+ with 19 civs on a huge lakes map. (without Flavour Start 50 seconds). I'll see what I can do about the extra 105 seconds. I have some ideas, but some of these ideas would need some serious code rewriting.

Also for me it didnt work a few times because it was just on intializing but got bored and ctrl-alt-del to desktop (vista) so the program jammed, if i leave it alone it will load eventually.

Never recognized this, but I'm usually playing in window mode not in full creen mode. On an XP machine that is.

As for the blakmane, if you use vista, the OS has a thing that when the program becomes unresponsible it just shuts it down (this happens if you ctrl-del or alt-tab while loading).

Interesting "feature".

Why does the loifajar (the elf good guys) start in the tundra? (lakes map) This happens on 80% of the games i played those guys start right up with the doviello in the norther tundra area.

There is usually a lot of forest in the tundra region and these guys like forest a lot. Could give them some dislike for Tundra but they are uber enough if you ask me.

Also after the map loads and i enter the editor to see where the AI is positioned, almost all of them appear at an equal height from eachother AI and from the equator (the desert/jungle area), this isnt quite right as far as i know.

This has nothing to do with FlavourMod. I'm merely redistributing the starting positions generated by civ4 or the underlying map script to fit each civ's flavour as good as possible under the given circumstances.

Hope this info is helpful to you.

Feedback is always a good thing.

 

[Blakmane]

I'm using XP. The problem seems to be that due to the long load times the game freezes before it can finish initialising.

It's not a huge problem as I can just adjust the peak smooth rate manually in the mapscript.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Ok, then. Maybe your problem vanishes, if I can somehow manage to reduce loading times in the future.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Version 2.2.3, an updated version for 0.40h, is up and ready for download (first post). No other changes.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's great. thanx!

 

[Ashdrake]

hey Jean,

regarding the elfs being uber enough, i would like to disagree on this issue. on marathon speeds, the amount of turns to build improvements on forested title reaches 30+ turns
Usually elfs start in a more warmer region, if you look at their models, most of them have skimpy outfits not suited to a cold climate, also they are mostly in forests, usually normal forests, not pine forests or other cold region trees forests (sorry english is not my first language so i have some specific words i dont know).

Also i think this happens because of the flavor mod, but i am playing on a noble difficulty, and i was getting very annoyed due to a few things.

The AI was stupid as hell, and was not expanding at all. I was palying with raging bards but i gave each AI 2 Archers in their city at the start of the game. i know that noble may be a bit low but i was trying a new strategy (building the altar of lunnoment) so i open the editor about 400 turns in the game and guess what.
the Doviello + the Khazzak + the other dwarfen nation did not expand at all beyond their initial city. I am thinking this because of the areas they start in do not have a lot of food, the dwarfes started in a hill area with only 2-4 PLAINS and their BFC was only hills (plain HILLS and no food resource in any of the 2-4 plains), the other dwarfes eventually got their second city but was very very latem and the doviello did not even build their worker.

I checked the editor each 50-75 turns (mind youi this is marathon difficulty huge map plain erebus). Also there were the default number of AI present on the MAP (11 i think for huge maps), the only civ who has 1/2 of my score was the lanun civ who had around 10 cities (all with pop 3-6).

Now when i played without the flavor mod on, the AI fares a bit better, so it's either i should just move to Prince or the starting locations the AI gets are very very poor.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Just to let you know. I have my first success in trying to make this mod faster. The End of Winter option takes almost no additional loading time anymore. It was around 70 seconds on my machine before the changes I've just made. Don't expect as much for the Flavour Starts component, but maybe I can gain some speed there as well.

One of the SDK functions I had to write for making EoW faster might also be useful for reducing the between-turn-delays in Fall from Heaven or Fall Further, especially if it comes to handling a lot of hell terrain in the late game. I'll have to take closer look on this. Swapping the complete terrain of huge map to another terrain type is a thing of a second now.

@Ashdrake:

I won't change the starting location preferences for the elves. Not for now. But your post gave me the idea to maybe link the elves to decidous forest only. That's not possible with the current code, but maybe I'll write something to handle this in the future.

Concerning your observation, that the AI is sometimes not at all or very slowly expanding: FlavourMod has almost nothing to with this. I'm not generating new starting positions, I'm just redistributing the starting locations Civ4 itself did generate. Hills for example are almost always bad for expanding. Even without Flavour Start the hilly location you saw would have been a starting location, but someone else would have started there. Probably someone with even bigger problems to handle a location like this in comparison to the Khazad.

Overall the world around the starting plots is a bit rougher with Flavour Start running, but that's a problem everybody has to handle, not only the AI. If I wouldn't disable some functions civ runs to improve starting positions, you would never see a tile of desert or mountain even near you for example. Malakim without desert wouldn't be very flavourful.

 

[Deon]

Uhh, Kael releases patches as mad. It's "k" already. I think he's got his new "enraged" promotion and applies it's effects to patches...
Do I have to wait for a new version or is the current one compatible since it's just a mapscript with other things?

 

[Jean Elcard]

You'll have to wait. There were SDK changes in most of Kael's past patch versions and those are always breaking FlavourMod. The last source code version Kael did release, was "h". As soon as he posts "k" I'm going to update the mod. Sometimes I wish he would release the source together with the patches, but for some unknown reason it takes a day or more for him to pack the source and upload it.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

wow, it's awesome to know that you may be able to make hell terrain spread less CPU intensive in the future. right now I've decided to definitely play with hell terrain OFF. waiting 1 minute or so in between turns makes me want to play something else