![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
ah, I wasn't aware of that. I was basically thinking of something similar to snarko's resource options, but done in a way that wouldn't interphere with the flavour starts 
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FlavourMod 2
- Thread starter Jean Elcard
- Start date
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
I know what you mean and hypothesized already, that your idea was inspired by Snarko's mod. To do the balancing in flavourful way is kind of hard and as you might know, I don't like to interfere with the base map scripts too much. FlavourMod intends to support a wide spectrum of scripts and it would be a shame if I mess up someones work by destroying a custom resource distribution system for example.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
some more suggestions:
incense doesn't fit the Bannor very well imho... seeing as they are an outright militaristic civ, I think they should have a preference for metals for their melee units. I think it'd be better to make it so they prefer copper>iron>mithril, as iron and mithril are accessible later, which makes copper a lot more valuable.
OTOH, a preference for incense fits the Malakim very well... they are very religious and even have a UB that grants a bonus with incense
Kurios could gain a preference for such luxury resources as dye, cotton, silk, gold and gems ( as they have 2 UBs that provide bonuses with those ) , plus we all know that they just LOVE luxury items
the Khazad could get a flavour for Gold and Gems ( for obvious reasons... greedy dwarves ) , and for all 3 metals as well ( their smithy gives a bonus with those, and it fits them ) .
the Luchuirp could get a flavour for marble ( good for gargoyles and nullstone golems ) , ivory ( needed for bone golems ) and iron+mithril ( needed for iron golems )
both dwarven races could gain a preference for the dragon bones, as the lore claims that dwarves used to have lots of fun by telling greedy humans that mithril was to be found in dragon lairs ( ) , so it seems that they knew were those lairs were, since they actually told humans "go there to find mithril" and then laugh hard as those tall guys got slaugthered 
of the 2 dwarven races, the Luchuirp should have a stronger preference as they would actually use those bones to create mighty bone golems
that's all, for the time being
incense doesn't fit the Bannor very well imho... seeing as they are an outright militaristic civ, I think they should have a preference for metals for their melee units. I think it'd be better to make it so they prefer copper>iron>mithril, as iron and mithril are accessible later, which makes copper a lot more valuable.
OTOH, a preference for incense fits the Malakim very well... they are very religious and even have a UB that grants a bonus with incense
Kurios could gain a preference for such luxury resources as dye, cotton, silk, gold and gems ( as they have 2 UBs that provide bonuses with those ) , plus we all know that they just LOVE luxury items
the Khazad could get a flavour for Gold and Gems ( for obvious reasons... greedy dwarves
) , and for all 3 metals as well ( their smithy gives a bonus with those, and it fits them ) .the Luchuirp could get a flavour for marble ( good for gargoyles and nullstone golems ) , ivory ( needed for bone golems ) and iron+mithril ( needed for iron golems )
both dwarven races could gain a preference for the dragon bones, as the lore claims that dwarves used to have lots of fun by telling greedy humans that mithril was to be found in dragon lairs (
) , so it seems that they knew were those lairs were, since they actually told humans "go there to find mithril" and then laugh hard as those tall guys got slaugthered of the 2 dwarven races, the Luchuirp should have a stronger preference as they would actually use those bones to create mighty bone golems
that's all, for the time being
Hey, first of all thanks to everyone who made this mod and is putting work into improving it. I've really enjoyed playing.
The reason I'm posting is because there seems to be some problems with flavored start positions, with some races preferring 'bad' terrain and I have a couple ideas to offer for the civs that seem to be hit hardest, namely the Malakim, Doviello, Illians, and the Khazad and Luchuirp.
First, for the Malakim, has anyone considered creating a unique terrain that could appear only inside Malakim cultural borders? A Golden Sands terrain that functions like the Ancient Forsests could make their barren deserts turn into Golden Sands over time. I would suggest a base resource value of 1 food 1 commerce, with improvements allowed to be built on them. The tiles would revert to deserts if the Malakim lose control of the area, unlike Ancient Forests as far as I know.
Second, for the Doviello, I think that a flavorful way for them to have a tundra advantage, is to give each tundra tile within their cultural borders a very small chance to spawn a friendly beastman each turn. I think that this 'guns over butter' advantage would give the Doviello player a good reason to found tundra cities not just for the resource-rich fur and deer areas, but also as barbarian recruitment outposts. If the mechanic proves viable, perhaps with advanced technologies there could be a chance for other units to spawn instead, making it powerful through the mid-game. For example Hunting > wolf packs.
I think that the dwarves and Illians could both benefit from a similar mechanic: a flat resource bonus for each tile of a fitting terrain type within their cities' fat cross and cultural borders. I'm not sure what a balanced bonus would be, but for example for each ice tile around one of Auric Ulvin's cities, the city gets +.5 commerce and production, and +.25 for tundra. So an Illian city with 4 ice tiles and 8 tundra tiles within it's workable area would recieve a bonus of +4 commerce and production. Enough to supplement the city for it's 12 dead tiles. The dwarves could use a similar benefit for Peaks and hills, possibly food and gold, or food and production for the khazad and luchuirp, respectively. Perhaps this would have to go under an extra leader trait (eg. Winterborn, Mountain Folk)
These are ideas that I had for improving the gameplay of flavorful starts that should benefit both the human and AI player. I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, whether this can be worked into the flavor mod or have to be in fall from heaven itself. These are only concepts, I am not a programmer by any means, and I appreciate any time you guys take to consider them for the benefit of the mod.
Thank you
-Magnitian
The reason I'm posting is because there seems to be some problems with flavored start positions, with some races preferring 'bad' terrain and I have a couple ideas to offer for the civs that seem to be hit hardest, namely the Malakim, Doviello, Illians, and the Khazad and Luchuirp.
First, for the Malakim, has anyone considered creating a unique terrain that could appear only inside Malakim cultural borders? A Golden Sands terrain that functions like the Ancient Forsests could make their barren deserts turn into Golden Sands over time. I would suggest a base resource value of 1 food 1 commerce, with improvements allowed to be built on them. The tiles would revert to deserts if the Malakim lose control of the area, unlike Ancient Forests as far as I know.
Second, for the Doviello, I think that a flavorful way for them to have a tundra advantage, is to give each tundra tile within their cultural borders a very small chance to spawn a friendly beastman each turn. I think that this 'guns over butter' advantage would give the Doviello player a good reason to found tundra cities not just for the resource-rich fur and deer areas, but also as barbarian recruitment outposts. If the mechanic proves viable, perhaps with advanced technologies there could be a chance for other units to spawn instead, making it powerful through the mid-game. For example Hunting > wolf packs.
I think that the dwarves and Illians could both benefit from a similar mechanic: a flat resource bonus for each tile of a fitting terrain type within their cities' fat cross and cultural borders. I'm not sure what a balanced bonus would be, but for example for each ice tile around one of Auric Ulvin's cities, the city gets +.5 commerce and production, and +.25 for tundra. So an Illian city with 4 ice tiles and 8 tundra tiles within it's workable area would recieve a bonus of +4 commerce and production. Enough to supplement the city for it's 12 dead tiles. The dwarves could use a similar benefit for Peaks and hills, possibly food and gold, or food and production for the khazad and luchuirp, respectively. Perhaps this would have to go under an extra leader trait (eg. Winterborn, Mountain Folk)
These are ideas that I had for improving the gameplay of flavorful starts that should benefit both the human and AI player. I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, whether this can be worked into the flavor mod or have to be in fall from heaven itself. These are only concepts, I am not a programmer by any means, and I appreciate any time you guys take to consider them for the benefit of the mod.
Thank you
-Magnitian
Cylnar
Enemy of corporatocracy
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2008
- Messages
- 86
I think I may have found a bug in this mod. I first noticed when playing FF but have since generated maps in vanilla FfH that corroborate my theory. Seems that certain resources (namely reagents and sugar) are not being spawned at all and some, like gems, are spawned very infrequently. I have noticed this in two different games of FF using huge maps (Erebus and Tectonics).
Of course when the game starts relatively few resources are available due to most of the world being covered in ice. As the land warms resources change to different types and new resources are discovered. For some reason reagents and sugar aren't spawned at all and gems are very rare (like 2-3 on the entire huge map). When I generate a map (FF or FfH) with EoW disabled all resources appear in normal amounts.
Maybe I'm just really unlucky...
Of course when the game starts relatively few resources are available due to most of the world being covered in ice. As the land warms resources change to different types and new resources are discovered. For some reason reagents and sugar aren't spawned at all and gems are very rare (like 2-3 on the entire huge map). When I generate a map (FF or FfH) with EoW disabled all resources appear in normal amounts.
Maybe I'm just really unlucky...
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
@Gekko: Again some very good ideas. I'll certainly consider them for the next version.
@Magnitian: Welcome to the forum. I'm happy you like the mod. Thanks a lot. You ideas are certainly valid, but I have to diappoint you. FlavourMod exists to help you get more immesed. FlavourMod does not want to change FfH's or FF's underlying game mechanics and that's what I would have to do to get your ideas in. You might want to post your ideas in the Fall Further forum. It's much more likely, you'll get some more feedback from all the nice people over there.
Btw, there is Malakim mod floating around somewhere in the forum that tries to improve the desert mechanics for them. Orbi made some nice changes to them too, iirc.
@Cylnar: Thanks for the feedback. I'm almost sure, that I saw reagents in my test games but I'll check it out anyway. It's not too hard to test this. I just need to count the number of reagents (sugar, gems) on the map before I turn it into a winter map and after the world thawed. That should give me an inkling, if it is really the EoW option, bad luck or something else entirely.
@Magnitian: Welcome to the forum. I'm happy you like the mod. Thanks a lot. You ideas are certainly valid, but I have to diappoint you. FlavourMod exists to help you get more immesed. FlavourMod does not want to change FfH's or FF's underlying game mechanics and that's what I would have to do to get your ideas in. You might want to post your ideas in the Fall Further forum. It's much more likely, you'll get some more feedback from all the nice people over there.
Btw, there is Malakim mod floating around somewhere in the forum that tries to improve the desert mechanics for them. Orbi made some nice changes to them too, iirc.
@Cylnar: Thanks for the feedback. I'm almost sure, that I saw reagents in my test games but I'll check it out anyway. It's not too hard to test this. I just need to count the number of reagents (sugar, gems) on the map before I turn it into a winter map and after the world thawed. That should give me an inkling, if it is really the EoW option, bad luck or something else entirely.
Ah, so it was in fact the wrong thread to post that in. Sorry about that. At any rate, maybe I can still contribute something here 
My favorite civ to play with at the moment is the Sidar, and while your mobility preference is effective in giving them hard to reach starting areas, I think it overlooks something important regarding their flavour: Mist. I prefer my Sidar to start near alpine riverbanks, which not only reduces mobility and makes for nice defensive bonuses, but feels a little mistier, imo. Others may have a different opinion, but here's the settings I'm using, and a couple screenshots from Erebus and PerfectWorld starts. Hopefully this is more helpful to you!
My Sidar Preferences
My favorite civ to play with at the moment is the Sidar, and while your mobility preference is effective in giving them hard to reach starting areas, I think it overlooks something important regarding their flavour: Mist. I prefer my Sidar to start near alpine riverbanks, which not only reduces mobility and makes for nice defensive bonuses, but feels a little mistier, imo. Others may have a different opinion, but here's the settings I'm using, and a couple screenshots from Erebus and PerfectWorld starts. Hopefully this is more helpful to you!
My Sidar Preferences
Spoiler :
Attachments
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
Good catch. The riverside preference wasn't available, when I first gave the Sidar their flavour. I'll keep the mobility malus, but I'll also add the riverside preference you are suggesting. Forest and Hills should be there automatically.
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
Thanks and "yes" there'll be a compatible (slightly enhanced) version for certain, but probably not before next year. Two reasons for this: I'm away for the next two weeks to a place where I have to share a computer with quite some other people (aka as "my family") and I want to wait for a more stable 0.40 patch. Don't want to have to merge every day again and again.
EDIT: If my Fall Further team mates should update to 0.40 earlier than me you might want to think about playing Fall Further to get back the advantages of FlavourMod. It's an integral part of this modmod.
EDIT: If my Fall Further team mates should update to 0.40 earlier than me you might want to think about playing Fall Further to get back the advantages of FlavourMod. It's an integral part of this modmod.
Ok, but somehow I doubt that scenario is going to happen...
I love FF, but I assume FF team will wait a bit longer than you.I'll just wait (im)patiently...
Thnx!
JayThomas
Warlord
Quick question: When selecting "Flavor" from the game options (Fall Further) is it OK to use the Erebus map script?
I poked around in the Erebus map script before finding out about this thead to find settings suitable for the Scions; not sure if I'm wasting my time.
Thanks.
I poked around in the Erebus map script before finding out about this thead to find settings suitable for the Scions; not sure if I'm wasting my time.
Thanks.
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
It works with Erebus. Erebus has an own mechanism for finding suitable starting plots but the Fall Further Flavour Start game option overwrites it. Or better formulated: The Flavour Start method triggers after the Erebus method.
I modified the Erebus map script for the next version of Fall Further to give you the option to replace Erebus' starting plot finding procedure completely with the vanilla one. Flavour Start is then working the same way for Erebus as for any other map script.
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
I see the world is going on without me.
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
Deleted by accident.
mimic
Magic Box
Excellent 
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
thanx a lot, it's awesome seeing that you even managed to squash the temp terrain bug of main FFH
do you recommend disabling Erebus' own flavor starts and let your game option do its work?
btw, any plan to add the "Avoid Angry/Unhealthy Citizens" buttons and/or civ4lerts to this?
edit: when forests disappear due to terrain changing to desert ( EoW ) , do they turn to scrubs or disappear completely? I think turning them to scrubs would be a nice touch
do you recommend disabling Erebus' own flavor starts and let your game option do its work?
btw, any plan to add the "Avoid Angry/Unhealthy Citizens" buttons and/or civ4lerts to this?
edit: when forests disappear due to terrain changing to desert ( EoW ) , do they turn to scrubs or disappear completely? I think turning them to scrubs would be a nice touch
Jean Elcard
The Flavournator
[to_xp]Gekko;7579714 said:thanx a lot, it's awesome seeing that you even managed to squash the temp terrain bug of main FFH
I hope I didn't introduce another bug by doing this. It worked well with 0.34 though and it's a part of Fall Further for quite some time now.
[to_xp]Gekko;7579714 said:
The option is the result from a request from the Fall Further forum. If you don't use the Erebus method for finding starting plots you lose the guaranteed map script feature to start alone in a given area, but you should gain some speed (because we don't have to do the flavouring twice) and a bit more variability concerning the surroudings of your starting location.
To be honest, I'm not sure what's working best and that's the main reason I made it an option. To get some feedback for this from someone who is playing FfH more often than me would be very appreciated.
[to_xp]Gekko;7579714 said:
No, because this is for one thing not the official Unaltered Gameplay Mod for Fall from Heaven
and for another thing every feature I add delays future updates to new version of FfH.[to_xp]Gekko;7579714 said:edit: when forests disappear due to terrain changing to desert ( EoW ) , do they turn to scrubs or disappear completely? I think turning them to scrubs would be a nice touch
Most of them revert to Scrubs already.
