FoL a little OP?
- Thread starter Calbrenar
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sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
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I am actually trying out elves and FoL right now. It's not really that great at all.
Hidden Paths is an expensive tech, you need to beeline for it and you've got nothing but warriors before then, for about 120-ish turns on normal speed. Founding fellowship of leaves is a gambit that could mean many turns of lack of development, even if you get it, and you'd be rather hosed if you don't. You're not counting on treants right?
Hidden Paths is not even that useful, as useful GP farm and floodplains areas don't have many forests. You have fewer, larger cities, so I guess it's good for builder games. But then you can't really expand outwards either, because you don't have siege engines, and waiting for mages with fireballs would mean yet more technologies. Mages aren't even the best defensive units around, although they do have other useful spells. Oh wait - bloom is not one of them. To grow forests in your lands would require incense and priests of leaves, which is rare and probably doesn't exist in your territory, and might even be removed once blight hits. Plus it requires priesthood, yet more expensive techs. Not to mention that they still don't provide any military benefits.
It's also high upkeep, which means you won't be able to support a large empire with it anyway. Of course, once you do have a large empire, you would have more hapiness and health resources around, so you probably could abondon it for foreign trade anyway. Or rather, you could abondon FoL and go for another religion instead.
The benefits of the religion just doesn't seem to pull together.
Hidden Paths is an expensive tech, you need to beeline for it and you've got nothing but warriors before then, for about 120-ish turns on normal speed. Founding fellowship of leaves is a gambit that could mean many turns of lack of development, even if you get it, and you'd be rather hosed if you don't. You're not counting on treants right?
Hidden Paths is not even that useful, as useful GP farm and floodplains areas don't have many forests. You have fewer, larger cities, so I guess it's good for builder games. But then you can't really expand outwards either, because you don't have siege engines, and waiting for mages with fireballs would mean yet more technologies. Mages aren't even the best defensive units around, although they do have other useful spells. Oh wait - bloom is not one of them. To grow forests in your lands would require incense and priests of leaves, which is rare and probably doesn't exist in your territory, and might even be removed once blight hits. Plus it requires priesthood, yet more expensive techs. Not to mention that they still don't provide any military benefits.
It's also high upkeep, which means you won't be able to support a large empire with it anyway. Of course, once you do have a large empire, you would have more hapiness and health resources around, so you probably could abondon it for foreign trade anyway. Or rather, you could abondon FoL and go for another religion instead.
The benefits of the religion just doesn't seem to pull together.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Hidden Paths has nothing to do with his comments.
The Ancient Forests give +1 food in addition to the +1 production that normal forest tiles give. This means that their cities grow very large and since Blight does not affect forest tiles, they do not lose thier food output like other players do. Elves being able to build improvements in forest tiles gives them towns, farms, and mines in their Ancient Forests to improve their output still further.
Forget Hidden Paths, it is an unnecessary Tech/Civic to make FoL an attractive religion.
The Ancient Forests give +1 food in addition to the +1 production that normal forest tiles give. This means that their cities grow very large and since Blight does not affect forest tiles, they do not lose thier food output like other players do. Elves being able to build improvements in forest tiles gives them towns, farms, and mines in their Ancient Forests to improve their output still further.
Forget Hidden Paths, it is an unnecessary Tech/Civic to make FoL an attractive religion.
Ringtailed
Anthropomorphic Lemur
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2006
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- 247
ancient forest/grassland gives 3 food, same as floodplains...
FoL is a funny religion, for elves it's awesome, for others it's... not. Though it's never really *bad*
FoL is a funny religion, for elves it's awesome, for others it's... not. Though it's never really *bad*
They've never seriously suffered from Blight, even the older version. Ancient forests allowed them to focus more on Cottages and almost ignore Farms entirely.
MaxAstro
Spiral Knight
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 645
No, what really hurt the Elves most of all is... their World Spell. >.< If you fail to realize that it kills all your Ancient Forests... things can be bad. I lost more population at one point to casting my world spell then I did to the Blight...
I agree. Hidden Paths is very low on my research priorities when I have FoL as my religion.
I have been campaigning for the allowance to build Kithra Kyriel with Hidden Paths. It would make the tech more attractive and would be more in line with other religions who can build a hero when the religion is made your national religion or you build a religion specific tech (OO - mind stapling and Savernous). I never understood why you had to wait to get Feral Bond for Kithra.
Question, downloaded .31 while out at easter dinners, so havn't seen the new blight yet. What's it been changed to?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Eight? Are you sure? How can they get more than 5? Inquisitors were removed, so the only units that can cast it are 4 Priors and Sphener (who also has Divine/Channeling3 and the Order religion. I haven't tested it, but he should have the spell too.)
Blackmantle
King
I agree. Hidden Paths is very low on my research priorities when I have FoL as my religion.
I have been campaigning for the allowance to build Kithra Kyriel with Hidden Paths. It would make the tech more attractive and would be more in line with other religions who can build a hero when the religion is made your national religion or you build a religion specific tech (OO - mind stapling and Savernous). I never understood why you had to wait to get Feral Bond for Kithra.
If you read Gildens pedia Entry and the Barons you'll wonder why he ist placed at Feral Bond and not Gilden. Balancing i suppose. Flavorwise he whould belong to Arcane Lore perhaps due to Hemmah "creating him". But Hemmah might be around earlier.
Hidden Paths could make sense though. (or merging Hidden Paths and Feral Bond?
)On some maps you can win a religious victory with FoL before Order is even founded so not sure if that's quite the same Dal ;>
Also this is sort of a pointless exercise now cuz I just read the "C" patch notes and Kael fixed blight. Apparently its not supposed to give a ton of unhealthiness (which would be worthless vs FoL and was the inspiration of this post) but kill off pop.
Also this is sort of a pointless exercise now cuz I just read the "C" patch notes and Kael fixed blight. Apparently its not supposed to give a ton of unhealthiness (which would be worthless vs FoL and was the inspiration of this post) but kill off pop.
If you read Gildens pedia Entry and the Barons you'll wonder why he ist placed at Feral Bond and not Gilden. Balancing i suppose. Flavorwise he whould belong to Arcane Lore perhaps due to Hemmah "creating him". But Hemmah might be around earlier.
Hidden Paths could make sense though. (or merging Hidden Paths and Feral Bond?
Yes, but Gilden and the Baron are not religion-specific heroes, and, Hemah is the 2nd more powerful OO hero. I think he is placed correctly as you can get Savernous with Mind Stapling.
I like your idea of merging Hidden Paths with Feral Bond, however, I'm not sure that should be specific to FoL religion. I just think Kithra should be moved to Hidden Paths and keep the Baron with Feral Bond, which makes sense.
