Foment unhappiness and Poison Water have a massive effect!

[marioflag]

Today i got BtS and i'm trying to use all the new tools that the expansion offer.
Using espionage i noticed that Foment unhappiness and Poison water have really a massive effect.
As you can see from the images foment unhappiness has the effect of adding +24 unhappy people for 24 turns which are decreased by 1 per turn (so after first turn the city has +23 , after 2turns +22 ).
It's the same for poison water which adds +24unhealthy faces for 24 turns which decreases as for foment unhappiness 1 per turn.
Personally i find it a bit overpowered, and i would also suggest that poison water should cost less than foment unhappiness because happiness is more important than health.







http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4beyondsword20070719ng8.jpg]

 

[Carter]

I'm suprised poison water doesn't reduce population.

I'm glad spies are so much more effective now though.

 

[marioflag]

getting some troubles posting images!


[img=http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5599/civ4beyondsword20070719uq2.th.jpg]



[img=http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8264/civ4beyondsword20070719rh3.th.jpg]

 

[icantdrawanime]

wow... that basically reduces a city to garbage in 1 turn... i cant see the screen so i dont know how expensive it is but espionage is looking sweeter and sweeter.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

24? What speed/difficulty are you using?

 

[marioflag]

marathon/noble

i will post other images.....i would just like to know should i cut some part of the link given by imageshack to post it at 1280x1024?

 

[killercane]

Can you foment unhappiness as soon as you have the spy enabled at Alphabet (and have the requisite spy points gathered, and have moved your ninja or whatever to the enemy capital)? Or does that ability come later?

I assume normal speed would be 12 turns of unhappies. That is pretty huge early in the game.

 

[marioflag]

i didn't use the spy as soon as i discovered alphabet, but missions were not unlocked by any tech or any other prerequisite.

 

[marioflag]

i have to say that also other missions are really powerful, like sabotage production, which destroys nearly 100 hammer of production or steal treasury which gave me around 100 gold.
Personally i don't found anything as powerful as foment unhappiness it's more dangerous than an atom bomb, it really reduce a city at a piece of crap for at least 10-15 turns

 

[Zhahz]

Espionage seems to be going from a nonfactor to a serious factor. Dunno if I like that, since I'm not a big fan of the impact of espionage/terrorism. From what I'm reading, it seems to be beyond excessive in power.

I guess I'll see for myself soon, or hope someone does a more detailed analysis of the spy/counterspy options.

 

[Infantry#14]

wow, that is huge effect... 6 unhappiness is hard to deal with, but 24

was there a big probability that you would have failed the mission?

 

[marioflag]

wow, that is huge effect... 6 unhappiness is hard to deal with, but 24

24 at the first turn you use the spy, it decreases by 1 unhappy face per turn.
So after 10 turns the city is hit by 14 unhappy faces instead of 24
At the beginning of the game it's really too much OP, it is not even costly, 378 espionage points are not so hard to get afterall.

 

[Virulent]

I would assume the Globe theater would make a city immune to foment unhappiness and an National Park would make a city immune to poison water.

 

[vodlaian]

From my experience, espionage is HUGE and appears to almost dominate later on. Expect in the late games to have constant messages about a civ screwing you in some way

If you don't invest much in espionage, you're in for a rough ride.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It is possible there is a bug there... if it is 24 for 24 turns on Marathon, it could be 8 for 8 turns on normal.... which means it Should be
8 un,..ness for 24/12/8/6 turns on the different speeds
NOT
24/12/8/6 un...ness for 24/12/8/6 turns on the different speeds

 

[Thedrin]

Krikkitone:
It is possible there is a bug there... if it is 24 for 24 turns on Marathon, it could be 8 for 8 turns on normal.... which means it Should be
8 un,..ness for 24/12/8/6 turns on the different speeds
NOT
24/12/8/6 un...ness for 24/12/8/6 turns on the different speeds

Sounds a lot like a flaw in the altering of affects at different game speeds. Pre-2.08, marathon players got much less great generals than at normal speeds because the required great general points tripled.

There was a screen shot showing that poison water supply gave 8 unhealthiness for 8 turns. Assuming that's at normal I won't be surprised to see the patch change the marathon settings to 8 unhealthiness for 24 turns, reducing to 7 unhealthiness after 3 turns. After all, marathon players don't have access to 3 times as much health as they would at normal speed.

 

[Common Sensei]

Looks like someone's been busy...

 

[ChunkyLover53]

So wait a minute....does this mean that the city basically cannot work tiles after you use foment unhappiness? that's crazy!

I'm actually most curious about how the spread culture mission works, as I enjoy city flipping very much. And would foment unhappiness also make the city more likely to flip?

If anyone knows anything about culture spread....I'm very interested.

 

[scherbchen]

at first i was shocked that the "great wall" did no longer give GE points. but i was convinced... in a game where i just wanted to get to the later stages i built it (among other wonders in my capitol) and was annoyed by the first 3 GPs being great spies. settled 2 and built one special building, that served me as counterintelligence for the entire game. nothing stolen, destroyed; enemy spies nuked as soon as they entered my borders (or just about).

i didn't try to go proactive with spies in that game, was kinda on auto-pilot. just remember that i was amazed that my two closest neighbours were never able to penetrate my defenses in that area.

btw prince epic speed big/small map.

 

[marioflag]

So wait a minute....does this mean that the city basically cannot work tiles after you use foment unhappiness? that's crazy!

I'm actually most curious about how the spread culture mission works, as I enjoy city flipping very much. And would foment unhappiness also make the city more likely to flip?

If anyone knows anything about culture spread....I'm very interested.

Yes.This mission also is likely to reduce population to 1.In my last game i have reduced 2 capitals which had population up to 15 and 18 to 2 and 4.
If you also use Poison Water with Foment Unhappiness you are assured to reduce pop to 1.