For the interst of Deity players, please no sarcastic responses.

[ColinTH]

you can sell the city you built oxford university in to gain the opportunity to build it again for another free tech.
it's a pretty useless exploit.

lol ..Well I never! How do people manage to think of ideas like this one?

I just finished the Montezuma game won - date 1869.
I ended with a size 35 City which produced 14 Great People and came in batches as follows - 3-1-4-4-1-1. = 4GS - 4GA - 3GE - 3GM.
I personally would only try multi batching GPs as Montezuma, I think as any other player your early growth rate would suffer enormously.

As MadDjin has stated, this system has alot of pitfalls not least of which - you are not producing as many of the GPs you really need for your own style of play. Another problem is the fact that some are produced before you really need them, thus costing you gold per turn.

EDIT-
I would have finished much earlier but for the fact that Greece declared war on me twice, both times when close to completing very important RAs with them (daft Greeks)! I must have spent roughly 500 turns at war with them until their demise.

Below are three screen shots, they are self explanatory.

 

[ColinTH]

in this situation i imagine the optimal route would be
build monument - worker,
take tradition, legalism at philosophy, landed elite
save until renaissance, take left two in freedom
save until you build cristo redentor, and then buy a whole bunch.

i suspect the optimal GP generation would be something like pop engineer + artist, then engineer + aritst + scientist and use the scientist for bulbing telegraph.

if you use RA blocking i'd imagine 1500s win is possible.

I just tried the above playing as Egypt, I managed my best yet which was win in 1792.
I made a couple of errors that probably cost me about 30 turns, the other problem playing as Egypt is that the tomb doesn't have a specialist slot, so I was way short on Artist landmarks. But yes, I have to say it looks like an excelent early finish method.

So thanks vexing - I will give it a try as another civ!

EDIT - long way to go for the 1500s !!!

 

[vexing]

its hard to say if getting the benefits of any particular branch would speed up the policy gain rate more so than saving. later policies definitely not, but because of the exponential costs you end up spending 90% of total culture on the final half of policies. i suspect my original bare minimum recommendation is probably inefficient and you'd gain overall by getting a few more before waiting for cristo.

i see siam isn't in your list yet, i'd try with them next. you'll definitely want to modify the game plan slightly to get a wat from legalism instead of temple, and you're going to want patronage branch early because city states become a huge boost.

i'd beeline calendar, take tradition, aristocracy and try to build stonehenge - i don't know whether this is feasible on marathon deity at all or not but personally i'd try and restart when i fail =)
after that just save for scholasticism when you hit middle ages, and make sure you have temple built and can buy legalism the turn you get education for the free wat.

really other than polynesia siam is probably the best suited to your play style

 

[ColinTH]

i see siam isn't in your list yet, i'd try with them next. you'll definitely want to modify the game plan slightly to get a wat from legalism instead of temple, and you're going to want patronage branch early because city states become a huge boost.

i'd beeline calendar, take tradition, aristocracy and try to build stonehenge - i don't know whether this is feasible on marathon deity at all or not but personally i'd try and restart when i fail =)
after that just save for scholasticism when you hit middle ages, and make sure you have temple built and can buy legalism the turn you get education for the free wat.

really other than polynesia siam is probably the best suited to your play style

I don't ally with any City States until I get the protection of the Manhattan Project, might be quirky, but this is my game plan. This way I can often stay out of war and trading with everyone for the whole game. So in respect of my playing style, Greece and Siam are last on my list. Going to war makes the game last 10 x longer for one thing!

My last game as Egypt, I did atleast one RA with every civ, and some of them as many as six! I had to refuse them in the end, I had other more important things to spend my money on once I had built the Cristo Redentor.

I will have to give Siam a try sometime so why not now .

Thanks vexing.

EDIT
Siam - lost 1460 - Germany built a city on each end of my Island - I withstood their first attack - Nuke in 1450 - My two remaining multi promoted Destroyers could do nothing to stop the troop invasion.
China - won 1852 - I had an island with six hexes, and in the sea I had (six fish)! three Whales and one sea oil, started badly until seaport. Had a strong navy, three other civs got coquered but I never was attacked.
Askia Songhai - won 1828, their Mosque was very helpful.
Germany - won 1814 - Good Island - I had to make alliances with five City States(used every available gold coin to do so), and then declare war and hold on for the last 24 turns. I had Uranium, purchased from everyone who had some.

 

[Muderers_Muse]

I've been lurking in the thread for a while now, Colin_TH's game plan seemed like a really fun way of playing the game so I thought I'd give it a shot myself.

Attached is the Initial autosave of my game and a screenshot of how it ended up for me. I'd be interested to know if anyone could actually top that time given the same set up.

I took the game plan that was laid out initially by Colin_TH and took on the advice of others that had posted in this thread, I didn't produce multiple great people. Infact, throughout I believe I produced 2 Engineers and 4 Artists, (Also received 2 from the Louvre) I was fortunate enough to go the entire game without war, the only person who even had any gripes with me was Napoleon.

Also when selling my resources I always sold for a lump sum of gold, or as much of a lump sum as possible. For instance, if the AI player only had 500 gold I'd ask for 500 + 4 per turn in exchange for luxuries.

At the end as well I saved up for 2 policies in order to take the last two policies in Piety, with an artist also saved for this moment it ensured I was in a Golden age for all but the last two turns of building the Utopia Project.

 

[ColinTH]

Nice one MM, I feel quite honored that you have been following this thread, I too have taken onboard some of the advice given.

You only discovered half the World so I take it you also played without ruins, and is it Deity? What made you choose Polynesia without ruins, that is like playing with a hadicap? Did you find all the World Wonders? I take it you didn't build a garden or a water mill, it looks like your City is in the middle of two rivers without being able to reap those two building benefits? Did you manage to build the important cultural wonders, it looks like a very green un-hilly un-forested island?

Also when selling my resources I always sold for a lump sum of gold, or as much of a lump sum as possible. For instance, if the AI player only had 500 gold I'd ask for 500 + 4 per turn in exchange for luxuries.

Apart from my first exchange, 900 for a luxury with which I buy the Library, I nearly allways sell for 9 per turn. I personally would have a job to manage my finances your way, I can see the point if we earned interest rates. Who am I to talk, when I played as Polynesia without ruins, I didn't finish until 1884!!

At the end as well I saved up for 2 policies in order to take the last two policies in Piety, with an artist also saved for this moment it ensured I was in a Golden age for all but the last two turns of building the Utopia Project.

Nice idea, depending on how many hammers you have this could save you up to ten turns I would imagine?

I might load your map and have a go at it tomorrow!
What do you reckon to Vexing's idea that it might be possible to finish in the 1500s?
There is probably someone out there who is sniggering to himself at what he perceives as our "average" performances!!
Once again - Well done, you have toppled my best!

EDIT - I will load your start map when my son turns up and shows me how. In the mean time unless I get nuked in the last fifteen turns I am going to finish in 1668 playing as Arabia, I followed vexing's Social Policy sugestion and it seems to have worked very well indeed!

 

[vexing]

What do you reckon to Vexing's idea that it might be possible to finish in the 1500s?

with polynesia i'd actually expect 1300s with the right map. i guess i'll have to prove it =)

 

[Lay_Lay]

This technique, multiple great people spawning simultaneous from the same city, appears to go against the spirit of the streamlinedness of CiV.
Do they want us to crunch numbers or not? I heard not.
I assume that this is an unintended feature.

 

[Muderers_Muse]

with polynesia i'd actually expect 1300s with the right map. i guess i'll have to prove it =)

On a Marathon length game? I seriously doubt it could be done in 500 turns. One City Challenge also, I don't think it would be possible to rack up the culture.

Top whack on the game I played and I had 424 culture at my peak. That was with 6 artists and a reasonable run of Standing Heads.

Even with holding on to most of your culture until the point that the Christo Redentor is constructed still leaves the last policy you need costing around the 8,500 mark.

I would have thought with a perfect map and a perfect game, no wars etc, so no need to go down the military route at all, that a finish around the 1650 mark COULD be possible, but the likelihood of actually making it that far with a backwards military against 9 Deity opponents would be slim. As soon as one war decced you that would be pretty much game over.

I would be really interested to see if it's possible to finish in the 1500s though. If you give it a shot Vexing be sure to post the results!

EDIT:
Also I guess if you didn't purchase a single policy until you build the Christo Redentor then that would save on the amount of culture you need to acquire. However the impact that would have on your ability to do, well just about anything would be severe. The 15% Growth and additional gold + happiness in the tradition tree is a must have, especially if your selling all your luxury resources in order to do RAs. Also the +100% Culture from cities with a wonder in the Freedom tree needs to be taken early on to maximise the potential.

 

[ColinTH]

This technique, multiple great people spawning simultaneous from the same city, appears to go against the spirit of the streamlinedness of CiV.
Do they want us to crunch numbers or not? I heard not.
I assume that this is an unintended feature.

We seek perfection with the tools/rules we are given, when we think we have done all we can, someone comes out with another idea. To keep up we have to move on or fall by the wayside. Formula 1 motor racing runs along the same principles. Some of us like new ideas to play around with!!

We may not be meant to number crunch, but some of us like it. Given the specs of my pc I have done all I can in a regular civ5 gaming fashion. I have won deity as every civ playing both Pangea (which I hate) and archipelago, those wins have come in a variety of different ways. What should I do, throw it in the bin? Or I could continue looking for different challenges?

I just won as Arabia 1668, I had six tech trades on the go at a cost of 600, my previous best at this cost was three! Vexing, I have to say, as we are honing our skills, I just wonder what time finish is possible?

Best of luck to you Guys, Vexing and MM (R you a heavy metal band gone wong)?

 

[ColinTH]

Thanks vexing - without your ideas I would have been stuck in the Late 1700s, I think I had reached my peak!
Sorry MM Ha! Ha! - You have a new challenge, GL to you.
Below is a map of the Arabia start, if anyone want's to give it a go they are welcome!

 

[Dizzy75]

Similar thing happened to me last night, quite by accident - I'd heard of the multiple-GP thing before, but didn't think it would happen by chance. In this case it was a GS and GE, which I used on Porcelain Tower for two bulbs.

It does seem a little "exploitative" to me, but not horribly so (since it requires a lot of micromanagement!) and as you pointed out, it can prevent you from getting the ones you need. In the GS/GE case with Porcelain Tower available, it worked great for me, but any additional GP would have been a waste at that point.

Four in one turn is pretty impressive, I must say!

 

[ColinTH]

Similar thing happened to me last night, quite by accident - I'd heard of the multiple-GP thing before, but didn't think it would happen by chance. In this case it was a GS and GE, which I used on Porcelain Tower for two bulbs.

It does seem a little "exploitative" to me, but not horribly so (since it requires a lot of micromanagement!) and as you pointed out, it can prevent you from getting the ones you need. In the GS/GE case with Porcelain Tower available, it worked great for me, but any additional GP would have been a waste at that point.

Four in one turn is pretty impressive, I must say!

Thanks - To be honest it was a little experimental, I can see the pro's and cons, if I miss out on the Hagia Sofia (the first wonder I attempt to get), then it is very simple to get GE, GM and GA as a batch. At that point I will have a GP slot for each, if you happen to then build a Wonder or two you may have to make a couple of adjustments!

 

[Muderers_Muse]

I just won as Arabia 1668, I had six tech trades on the go at a cost of 600, my previous best at this cost was three! Vexing, I have to say, as we are honing our skills, I just wonder what time finish is possible?

I thought a 1650 finish could be possible and there you've gone and done it not so much as a day later, in fact looking at the bonuses obtained by the Arabians I would say on this particular game type and style of play that they are capable of finishing quicker than the Polynesians. Given a perfect game as both nations etc. The capability of selling resources is what allows you to keep the RAs going so the double resources is invaluable.

Numbers wise we could look at it this way;
For instance let's say you have exactly the same map for both the Arabians and the Polynesians, your city as standard has 4 luxury resources and produces 50 gold after all bonuses.
You sell the resources for 900 gold once per 90 turns, making your GPT 90 gold. 90 x 90 = 8100
So over 90 turns you will have 8100 which is enough for on average maybe 9 RAs, however you'd need to keep 1/3 of the total as a back up for military upgrades, purchases in the city that sort of then. So you could potentially have 5 RAs on the go at any one time.
With the Arabians it's a completely different ball game, double the numbers from the resources which gives you 130 GPT so 90 x 130 = 11700
You will still need to hold back the same amount of money, so now the 1/3 has turned into 1/4. Giving you the potential to run up 4 more RAs, which is overkill seeing as on these game types there have been 9 opponents, and I would assume it is rare that all 9 are standing by the end. (I know they weren't in mine!) But if you could push out just 7-10 more RAs in the game it would make a huge difference.

In essence, although Polynesia may be able to produce more culture, The Arabians will be pulling in RAs 50% faster meaning they will shoot up the Tech tree. If as the Arabians you manage to get Broadcast Towers 100 turns before the Polynesians would get it it really would tip the balance in the Arabians favor.

Also on OCC, the most Maoi Standing Head thingies you could get would be quite few, maybe 6 heads that between them would give you 26 culture (Before Multipliers) Granted after the Multipliers such as Broadcast Towers, and the +100% Culture in cities policy that may hit the 80 mark.

Best of luck to you Guys, Vexing and MM (R you a heavy metal band gone wong)?

Ahaha, I see what you did! Yes my name has failed, in my rush to get registered on the site I have ruined my one chance at giving myself an impressive and more importantly correct username.

EDIT:
To further prove my ability to rush and make a prat of myself, Arabia is not the same Nation as the Ottomans, and thus my post made no sense. Apologies to anyone who read it and thought 'What the hell!?'

Herp Derp.

 

[vexing]

with legendary start the main limiting factor is going to be culture, not gold.

the ideal map will have marble (preferably that can be settled upon) and wine or incense, an adjacent river and preferably an adjacent desert tile for solar plant, plus a decent layout that allows a ton of adjacent statues (basically spits two tiles wide jutting out from the main area). statues can end up being +6 in ideal spots. getting all those is going to be quite rare so i'll end up settling for less.

colin, you said occ - have you been checking the occ box, or just you've been using only the one city? basically puppeting a neighbor would help speed up the time so i want to know if it's acceptable. also i'm going to play standard size - my comp can handle it.

 

[ColinTH]

with legendary start the main limiting factor is going to be culture, not gold.

the ideal map will have marble (preferably that can be settled upon) and wine or incense, an adjacent river and preferably an adjacent desert tile for solar plant, plus a decent layout that allows a ton of adjacent statues (basically spits two tiles wide jutting out from the main area). statues can end up being +6 in ideal spots. getting all those is going to be quite rare so i'll end up settling for less.

colin, you said occ - have you been checking the occ box, or just you've been using only the one city? basically puppeting a neighbor would help speed up the time so i want to know if it's acceptable. also i'm going to play standard size - my comp can handle it.

Hi vexing - Yes I have been ticking the OCC box, as you say it would make a difference if we could puppet. The trouble is once you go to war and puppet you could loose trading partners for a period of time, if you are the protagonist they become very awkward with their trade demands.

The Moais are like a catch 22 situation, they tend to stunt your City growth/production, from my experience idealy you could do with alot of fish. I have just about completed MMs map, I built a few Moais but had to replace them because my production was suffering, and to be honest it wasn't an ideal map for Polynesia! I will beat MMs time, but not by very much. Like you say the ideal would be two or even three spits two tiles wide.

Good Luck to you vexing.

EDIT
I think if I didn't disable ruins on a Polynesia game, I imagine it could be completed 100 turns faster. I am odd I know, but ruins as Polynesia is taking the mickey!!

 

[ColinTH]

EDIT:
To further prove my ability to rush and make a prat of myself, Arabia is not the same Nation as the Ottomans, and thus my post made no sense. Apologies to anyone who read it and thought 'What the hell!?'

Herp Derp.

Ha Ha - I didn't read your post before the edit, so it was Harum Rashid the Ottomon? I think in real life History he had alot to do with the protection of Turkey and conquering the "infidel!"

Yes - I agree with what you had to say, Arabia with Bazars produce twice the amount of luxury resources to any other civ.

EDIT
I just played your map and finished in 1766.
My City was only a size 27 as opposed to your size 30.
I had 7 landmarks.
I got six wonders (I normally get four).
Despite the fact there are no ruins in our games I still felt the need to explore ASAP, I got alot of early RAs, and found all the Natural Wonders, I also found most of the City States first. I noticed that you didn't explore hardly atall even by end game! I find playing as Polynesia if you use two warriors(Moais) in conjunction and use only the deep sea tiles, you can also beat up barbarian camps for much needed early gold, ok so you can't cover the whole map as quickly, but you are not having to replace warriors taken by barb ships. As soon as I can get a trireme built I send it to work in conjuction with the Moais.
I made some horendous errors early game, I got archery and bronze working from my first two RAs. LOL

 

[Muderers_Muse]

Just had a go on your map ColinTH. Went about as well as I could have hoped for.

I've posted my results below, would be interesting to see if you could top that one! Just hope you get the time to give it a shot.

It's a real shame I've been really enjoying this thread and game style but with the new patch round the corner and the balancing to Culture victories I'm pretty sure this will be a thing of the past.

Vexing, I didn't think it was possible but with a near perfect map breaking the 1600 mark is possible! Mind you, I don't think I would have come anywhere near the result I just got had it not been for the information in this thread! Thanks very much to the both of you on that one

 

[ColinTH]

Vexing, I didn't think it was possible but with a near perfect map breaking the 1600 mark is possible! Mind you, I don't think I would have come anywhere near the result I just got had it not been for the information in this thread! Thanks very much to the both of you on that one

Well done, infact very well done, excuse me but i am pissed! Old gits like me can't drink, I used to be a very good arm wrester, but I lost tonight, so I have been put in my place twice!! Again, very well done!!

 

[vexing]

Vexing, I didn't think it was possible but with a near perfect map breaking the 1600 mark is possible! Mind you, I don't think I would have come anywhere near the result I just got had it not been for the information in this thread! Thanks very much to the both of you on that one

how about the 1100s mark?

to be fair, i did use puppets and that's pretty much the only way to do this. my main goal was just to see how fast it could be done, and the settings are all severely in my favor.
it's normal size, i picked opponents to minimize the wonder builders and added the two extra, left ruins on, policy saving, no barbs.
signed 9 RAs while in the classical era, guided the first one to pop civil service, the next two to pop metal casting + steel around turn 200, had built 3 maori warriors after barracks / heroic epic in capital before this, and then used them to puppet napolean as he was being a bit of a wonder whore and was in first place. i gained the pyramids out of the deal which is very helpful, then covered his land in statues.

cath completed chichen, so i headed down to grab that. it took me a very long time to puppet her cities, i ended up needing to wait until RAs had gotten navigation so i could use a couple frigates to reinforce my longswords. after that i pretty much just chilled until the end when i needed a source of aluminum for a hydro plant, so i upgraded my frigates to destroyers and took washington's cities - he had aluminum with a mine built.

for policies i took tradition, aristocracy, legalism at philosophy, landed elite, monarchy, saved till renaissance and took left side of freedom, then patronage to scholasticism then educated elite, then right side of freedom (i think 14 policies total), then saved until i had built cristo.

it could be done faster too. i had no wine/incense for a monastery, i missed building oracle, no desert for solar plant - utopia project took 27ish turns to build, i signed some RAs that were intended to get me to a nuclear plant but i didn't bother calculating how many turns would really be left, so i signed them way too late.

i also wasn't sure how puppets would react to the statues and learned a couple things: they'll work a 3 food 2/3 culture tile over a 2 food 1 gold sea tile, but not over a 2 food 2 gold sea tile, so going into a golden age dropped my culture output, and you really need to prioritize flight as the +1 gold makes the puppets love them.