For the interst of Deity players, please no sarcastic responses.

[spfun]

I played a deity OCC game similar to that recently, mine was standard Pangaea though which made things a hell of alot tougher because of wars... slowed me down hardcore. I didn't have policy saving on had 2 extra AIs -4 CS, played As France as i dont have DLC, it was OCC game no barbs/ruins legendary start. Won about 1800 mark, very impressive u got 1100 had no CS allies had 6 friends who i spammed RAs with throughout the game. 2 declared War but i got friends to kill them. then it was press enter till victory! I had science victory off as i did random civs & got Iroquois & Darius who love teching. I got Stonehenge & Cristo Redenter. missed out on Sistine chapel by 2 turns... >.<

Maybe i'll have to try an archipelago deity game before the patch! How do you find all your contacts so early to sign 9 RAs in classical on archipelago? Oh forgot your Polynesia! Damn i need dlc haha.

 

[Agent Cooper]

In my experience when playing with a deity cultural win as the objective, the 'warmonger approach' will beat a peaceful game by a wide margin, judging by both overall score and date/year when victory is assured.

The obvious difference being how a super capital + 20 puppets will make gold + science pour into your pockets + the overall population boost which affects score bigtime.

Going the other route, building 1-3 super cities + no puppets + no warfare if possible, can in my experience never reach those numbers no matter how good your cities might become.

However, the margin between the 2 approaches, is most likely to drop if you play on a arch map, since that essential early rush might not be viable, unless you play as the Vikings or something similar. You are going too need access to an early iron resource no matter what. So, everything is situational.

I sort of like the approach with having several GPs appear on the same turn with some careful preparation, even though MajDinn is correct with regards to the numbers breakdown. But if your overall strategy benefits more from having a group of early GPs than it is hurt by postponing the next available GPs, you've got something. An early artist can make a landmark which essentially is a mini-Stonehenge, Babylon has demonstrated the power of an early GS etc.

I'm surprised that Siam of all civs, didn't work out for you. Did you stay true to the strat of not allying with CSs until the atomic age in that game? Or did the AI civs eat the CSs in such a fashion that Siam's UA had a diminished effect?

 

[ColinTH]

how about the 1100s mark?

to be fair, i did use puppets and that's pretty much the only way to do this. my main goal was just to see how fast it could be done, and the settings are all severely in my favor.
it's normal size, i picked opponents to minimize the wonder builders and added the two extra, left ruins on, policy saving, no barbs.
signed 9 RAs while in the classical era, guided the first one to pop civil service, the next two to pop metal casting + steel around turn 200, had built 3 maori warriors after barracks / heroic epic in capital before this, and then used them to puppet napolean as he was being a bit of a wonder whore and was in first place. i gained the pyramids out of the deal which is very helpful, then covered his land in statues.

cath completed chichen, so i headed down to grab that. it took me a very long time to puppet her cities, i ended up needing to wait until RAs had gotten navigation so i could use a couple frigates to reinforce my longswords. after that i pretty much just chilled until the end when i needed a source of aluminum for a hydro plant, so i upgraded my frigates to destroyers and took washington's cities - he had aluminum with a mine built.

for policies i took tradition, aristocracy, legalism at philosophy, landed elite, monarchy, saved till renaissance and took left side of freedom, then patronage to scholasticism then educated elite, then right side of freedom (i think 14 policies total), then saved until i had built cristo.

it could be done faster too. i had no wine/incense for a monastery, i missed building oracle, no desert for solar plant - utopia project took 27ish turns to build, i signed some RAs that were intended to get me to a nuclear plant but i didn't bother calculating how many turns would really be left, so i signed them way too late.

i also wasn't sure how puppets would react to the statues and learned a couple things: they'll work a 3 food 2/3 culture tile over a 2 food 1 gold sea tile, but not over a 2 food 2 gold sea tile, so going into a golden age dropped my culture output, and you really need to prioritize flight as the +1 gold makes the puppets love them.

Wow! I am astounded, bloody well done. Not quite in keeping with the way I have been playing (as you have stated), none the less, I take my hat off to you. Unfortunately my pc can't support a standard size map, so I can't take you on!

I am envious, and I am sure MM feels the same!

 

[ColinTH]

I'm surprised that Siam of all civs, didn't work out for you. Did you stay true to the strat of not allying with CSs until the atomic age in that game? Or did the AI civs eat the CSs in such a fashion that Siam's UA had a diminished effect?

I have become very robotic with my strategy, and playing as Siam or Greece would involve a complete rethink, I tend to find that because I am allying with City States, I can't afford the RAs on a OCC. Also other AI civs are more likely to go to war because they also want those City States. I think Siam would work better than any other civ(except Polynesia, as demonstrtaed by vexing) if it wasn't a OCC.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I have become very robotic with my strategy, and playing as Siam or Greece would involve a complete rethink, I tend to find that because I am allying with City States, I can't afford the RAs on a OCC. Also other AI civs are more likely to go to war because they also want those City States. I think Siam would work better than any other civ(except Polynesia, as demonstrtaed by vexing) if it wasn't a OCC.

Yeah, an OCC approach will most likely diminish the gold flow unless you are Arabia or have something like +6 luxuries at the capitol. The Patronage tree is your best friend though and it works in perfect synergy with Siams UA.

But you know... I've lost cultural games as Siam as well...

BTW, yeah - victory at around 1100 AD is impressive.

 

[ColinTH]

Yeah, an OCC approach will most likely diminish the gold flow unless you are Arabia or have something like +6 luxuries at the capitol. The Patronage tree is your best friend though and it works in perfect synergy with Siams UA.

But you know... I've lost cultural games as Siam as well...

BTW, yeah - victory at around 1100 AD is impressive.

As you say the Patronage tree would be very important as Siam or Greece, I have had three attempts as Siam and got nuked in every one! One of my attempts would have given me an early 1600s victory but for being nuked.

Yeah - 1100 by vexing, I'm well impressed!

 

[Agent Cooper]

As you say the Patronage tree would be very important as Siam or Greece, I have had three attempts as Siam and got nuked in every one! One of my attempts would have given me an early 1600s victory but for being nuked

Hey man, just build the SDI and watch those nukes drop into the ocean, while you laugh your ass of... - oh, wait a minute...

 

[vexing]

it was 1195 - 1100s sounds more impressive =)

1 city + puppets will definitely do better if you want to give it a try, for a bunch of reasons:
ton of extra gold to ally CS and rush buy buildings
some extra science
a little extra culture (or a ton as polynesia)
can produce enough GGs to end the game in a continuous golden age
can get highly leveled units to trivialize any later conquest or act as a pure deterrent - in my game i only did this with the boats, the ground pounders used all their promotions on instant heals, which was effective for my goal.
you're crippling generally a close AI that could otherwise cause problems
can capture useful wonders.

generally declaring one war hardly alters your standing with other civs. in my game pretty much everyone was friendly after i declared on napolean, only one person (bismarck) became hostile after i declared on russia though a few were slightly upset (ie stopped offering full price)

the strategy is really particularly suited to marathon, since guiding RAs is easier and you gain a tech (unit) lead via them for a lot more raw number of turns.

 

[ColinTH]

Hey man, just build the SDI and watch those nukes drop into the ocean, while you laugh your ass of... - oh, wait a minute...

Ha Ha - Diplomacy on the up-coming patch seems to be a marked improvement, which includes getting a bad rep for using nukes, but why the hell didn't they give us SDI? So many threads have touched on this subject.

 

[Agent Cooper]

it was 1195 - 1100s sounds more impressive =)

And technically speaking, it's actually not incorrect. A 39 year old + 11 months is still in his/her 30s...

I'd like to add another pro of the super capitol + puppet empire approach to your extensive list. If an AI civ at the other end of the map becomes a serious threat to your overall cultural win ambitions for whatever reason (everybody, let's just say 'India' all together now), you are likely to command a top tier, small but highly promoted, military task force you can send in their direction and 'contain' the threat.

The peaceful OCC approach usually have no options but to look in horror if your ambitions of victory seem to melt away - in ColinTH's case, that feeling seems to be evoked when approaching nukes start to become visible in the horizont.

 

[Agent Cooper]

Ha Ha - Diplomacy on the up-coming patch seems to be a marked improvement, which includes getting a bad rep for using nukes, but why the hell didn't they give us SDI? So many threads have touched on this subject.

Because the nerf-patch can only be applied to buildings/SPs/etc. that exists in the game pre-patch. You can't nerf what doesn't exists. As there exists no SDI building to nerf, there will be no SDI building period.

 

[vexing]

there are options - mainly in the form of bribing other civs into war.

 

[ColinTH]

it was 1195 - 1100s sounds more impressive =)

Indeed it does.

generally declaring one war hardly alters your standing with other civs. in my game pretty much everyone was friendly after i declared on napolean, only one person (bismarck) became hostile after i declared on russia though a few were slightly upset (ie stopped offering full price)

That is very interesting, I have definately become very blinkered in my thinking, I really did think that once you declared war your reputation would be tarnished for the whole game. This is me thinking as humans do, ah! Bismark declared war on Askia because he wanted a luxury just out of reach, I must tread carefully, and we remember these offences against humanity for the whole game.

I must have a go at one of these games with your slightly adjusted set of rules before the patch!

 

[vexing]

I really did think that once you declared war your reputation would be tarnished for the whole game.

there are caveats:
you can't make a DoF with the person beforehand (i never make those anyway)
you can't eliminate them completely
you need some delay between each of the cities of theirs you take (or the AI perceive it as you expanding too rapidly)
if the person you're conquering has a neighbor (gives you a new neighbor) they're probably going to covet your lands
if they had DoFs their friends will probably dislike you
if they ask you about your intent and you lie it's a big penalty (i find bringing up trade dialog with the person at the end of every turn may help them in not asking - they mention "the position of your troops is a bit worrisome" but don't ask the direct question)

 

[Agent Cooper]

That is very interesting, I have definately become very blinkered in my thinking, I really did think that once you declared war your reputation would be tarnished for the whole game. This is me thinking as humans do, ah! Bismark declared war on Askia because he wanted a luxury just out of reach, I must tread carefully, and we remember these offences against humanity for the whole game.

I must have a go at one of these games with your slightly adjusted set of rules before the patch!

On that note, I'll strongly recommend keeping an eye on relations between the AI civs. I my present game with 14 civs, I declared war on a civ (early war), did my thing and was ready to play peacefully for 30-40 turns or so. But I discovered that my new neighboring civ, which was Japan, had no friendly relations and no open borders with the rest of the world - only a bunch of denouncements. So I steamrolled him right there on the spot and left him with one puny city and only 1 of the other civs denounced me. The rest remained friendly/neutral.

But with that said - diplomacy can be completely unpredictable as well and even the best laid plans can go to hell from time to time.

 

[Muderers_Muse]

how about the 1100s mark?

o.O

Might have to give it a shot, any chance you could put your initial save up?

 

[ColinTH]

there are caveats:
you can't make a DoF with the person beforehand (i never make those anyway)
you can't eliminate them completely
you need some delay between each of the cities of theirs you take (or the AI perceive it as you expanding too rapidly)
if the person you're conquering has a neighbor (gives you a new neighbor) they're probably going to covet your lands
if they had DoFs their friends will probably dislike you
if they ask you about your intent and you lie it's a big penalty (i find bringing up trade dialog with the person at the end of every turn may help them in not asking - they mention "the position of your troops is a bit worrisome" but don't ask the direct question)

It makes me laugh when forum members talk about culture victories on Archipelago being PRESS NEXT TURN, and very monotonous! You and I know there is a heck of alot going on, and even more so in your game. Infact when you play as Polynesia there is never a press next turn! When I finish playing, I have to make a cup of tea and watch telly for half an hour to stop my brain from working overtime (very small brain)!

AGENT COOPER - On that note, I'll strongly recommend keeping an eye on relations between the AI civs. I my present game with 14 civs, I declared war on a civ (early war), did my thing and was ready to play peacefully for 30-40 turns or so. But I discovered that my new neighboring civ, which was Japan, had no friendly relations and no open borders with the rest of the world - only a bunch of denouncements. So I steamrolled him right there on the spot and left him with one puny city and only 1 of the other civs denounced me. The rest remained friendly/neutral.

Thanks for the tips, there is more to this game than meets the eye!

 

[vexing]

have fun. i chose to settle on the marble.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I have had three attempts as Siam and got nuked in every one! One of my attempts would have given me an early 1600s victory but for being nuked.

[Siam, early morning... Prime Minister ColinTH is walking the beach outside the glorious capitol...]

'Hmmm... fresh air... life is good.'

'Oh, and look at my marvelous Utopia Project being constructed right there among all my other nice wonders.
This will be great. Good thing I choose to go gold for the Utopia roof color... It really gives contrast to the whites of Christo...'

(cell phone rings)

'Yes..? Oh, god morning to you too, general... Hmmm.... What...? I don't understand... Radar has picked up what...? Where?
Oh, you know what - hold on a minute.'

ColinTH grabs his binoculars and looks towards the ocean...

Now he sees it..

A small object approaching in the distance...

'Hmmm...'

'...that looks like a.... missile...?

'...nuclear missile...??!'

ColinTH can now suddenly make out that someone has actually written something on the missile case..

'...To my pal Colin...'

'...Thank you for a long and prosperous friendship...'

'...but even the best friendships might end...'

'...with a bang...'

'...Regards your pal Mahatma G.'

'...PS: Please give my regards to Kali if you meet her in Hell...'

Horror...

ColinTH redials his cell phone, full panic mode.

His stare fixed towards Utopia.

'..Hello - give me the architect right now!...'

'Hello? Hurry - get that thing built now! Now, you hear?!...'

'What do you mean there's 15 years left??! Good God man, pull yourself together!

'..OK, rush buy it. Spend it all now! Everything! Sell everything! Sell...'

'You can't rush buy Utopia??? Are you kidding me?!

'Ok...ok... I see a forest. Get some guys out here now and chop it! Hell, get me an axe and I'll do it myself. Now - do you hear?! A chainsaw! Get me a...'



[Meanwhile in New Delhi, India, inside the secret bunker installation beneath The Taj Mahal]

PM Ghandi is watching the large viewscreen.

A fireball erupts on the map spot where Siam used to be. Silence.

'Ohh... how wonderful.'

Ghandi smiles to himself and now looks at the book lying before him.

The title page reads 'SUN TZU - THE ART OF WAR'

He turns towards his aide.

'...Rajiv.... Please send a memo to the Chinese civilization and express my gratitude for the gift they sent me.'

'It was an enjoyable read. End'

Ghandi takes a sip of tea as he slowly leaves the room, smiling...


(Sorry couldn't help it... I'm so bored today )

 

[ColinTH]

Ha Ha, you obviously have to much time on your hands! Thanks for the entertainment, I think I needed it on a day when I have been getting to worked up about some of the new patch implementations.