Foreign submarine in Swedish waters

[red_elk]

Finally you admit the truth. I was wondering when you would speak truthfully.

I always speak the truth. "A small nuke going off near Stockholm" is definitely what will bring happiness to Russian people and eternal glory to our dear comrade Putin.

 

[Verbose]

In any case, if Russia is installing crap on the seafloor inside Swedish territorial waters, it still behooves the Swedish navy to work out if there's anything there, and if necessary remove it. If Russia is taking advantage of the "peace dividend", and Sweden having unilaterally scrapped it's entire array of fixed underwater surveillance installations from the Cold War (and it's all gone today), then that just says Sweden needs to invest in some new capability.

Russian subs or no, where they're not supposed to go, I'm more curious if there's any kind of Russian argument for why the devil Russian military aircraft should be shuttling about, getting into civilian air-traffic space, with their transponders off, posing a hazzard to civilian air traffic? While at the same time Russian warships are forcing ships from other countries out of areas, and to deviate from whatever they are doing (which ranges from scientific exploration, to constructing a high-capacity underwater electricity cable from Sweden to Lithuania)? Especially what the specific point is of Russia not abiding by courtesy protocols (you state in advance where you will be flying/sailing for exercise purposes) it has otherwise agreed upon?

 

[red_elk]

Russian subs or no, where they're not supposed to go, I'm more curious if there's any kind of Russian argument for why the devil Russian military aircraft should be shuttling about, getting into civilian air-traffic space, with their transponders off, posing a hazzard to civilian air traffic? While at the same time Russian warships are forcing ships from other countries out of areas, and to deviate from whatever they are doing (which ranges from scientific exploration, to constructing a high-capacity underwater electricity cable from Sweden to Lithuania)?

Is their behavior any different from recent behavior of NATO planes/subs? Just wondering.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I score Sweden in the same category as Finland. If Russia wants to set off a nuke in a Swedish harbor they can just sail up in a submarine and shoot one in on the nose of a torpedo...from international waters. The whole "installing crap on the seafloor inside territorial waters" is just a silly concern for Sweden to have.

 

[High King J.J.]

I also heard that Nepal earthquake was caused by the Russians testing their tectonic weapon. Did you see similar reports in Finnish media?

Nope. I did see a story about Putin playing Ice Hockey and scoring 8 goals though. Sounds like North Korea's Kim Whatever has a rival in the field of sports. Ah the wondrous power of a cult of personality.

 

[red_elk]

Nope. I did see a story about Putin playing Ice Hockey and scoring 8 goals though.

He did. Not sure how many goals he scored, but he participated in some friendly game in Sochi

Spoiler :

Link to video.

Sounds like North Korea's Kim Whatever has a rival in the field of sports. Ah the wondrous power of a cult of personality.

Everybody knows that the president playing sport game means he is a dictator.

 

[High King J.J.]

I just want to point out the absurdity here.

If a nuclear weapon detonates outside a Finnish port...ever...what chance do you think Russia has of "denying all responsibility"? What do you think they could propose as an alternative theory? Spontaneous nuclear combustion? An assault by dissident herring demanding an end to their exploitation?

What chance does Russia have of denying all responsibility of invading Ukraine? That depends on where you are. If you are in Russia then obviously all claims of any involvement are part of a fascist-nazi-NATO-USA-imperialist conspiracy or whatever. Or at least you know to keep your mouth shut. Or else. If you are in the West you know better if you care to know at all. Most don't care anyway.
So Russia could blame NATO of trying to frame them. Or of Finland developing their own nukes and doing the same. Only some of their own people would believe it but so what? They claimed Ukraine had shot down the Malaysian airliner and were trying to blame the terrorists "rebels". Some people still believe that because all they see is Kremlin-controlled media. Nobody sane believes anything Putin says without checking it from independent sources but they don't have to make it plausible. Putin has learned from Hitler, the masses believe a big lie easier than a small one. (We are good. We are holy. We have the right to take whatever we want because everything is or should be ours anyway. Everyone else is against us. That's because they are evil. Unholy. If anyone says otherwise they are evil and can be killed with impunity, like Nemtsov. If other countries protest our invasions we threaten with nukes. As long as we attack only countries that are not in NATO others will not risk a war.)
And why would Putin even care if other countries believe him? They threatened Denmark with a nuclear strike just because they joined a missile defence program. That's how much they care about international relations.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They care enough that they have never nuked anyone, and I see no realistic possibility of them starting to do so. Besides, why would they, or anyone, bother with nuking Finland? No offense, but Finland isn't exactly a major world military power...unless I'm missing something, which is always possible.

 

[Cutlass]

In any case, if Russia is installing crap on the seafloor inside Swedish territorial waters, it still behooves the Swedish navy to work out if there's anything there, and if necessary remove it. If Russia is taking advantage of the "peace dividend", and Sweden having unilaterally scrapped it's entire array of fixed underwater surveillance installations from the Cold War (and it's all gone today), then that just says Sweden needs to invest in some new capability.

Russian subs or no, where they're not supposed to go, I'm more curious if there's any kind of Russian argument for why the devil Russian military aircraft should be shuttling about, getting into civilian air-traffic space, with their transponders off, posing a hazzard to civilian air traffic? While at the same time Russian warships are forcing ships from other countries out of areas, and to deviate from whatever they are doing (which ranges from scientific exploration, to constructing a high-capacity underwater electricity cable from Sweden to Lithuania)? Especially what the specific point is of Russia not abiding by courtesy protocols (you state in advance where you will be flying/sailing for exercise purposes) it has otherwise agreed upon?

Russia simply doesn't know how to play nice with others. Their self-image as a superpower, which they no longer can really lay claim to, but they're trying to project power in the world as if they are. And that means trampling over others in their way to the best extent that they can.

 

[Cheetah]

Heh.

Ocean X Team has found something.

A Russian minisubmarine has been discovered in Swedish territorial waters not far from the Swedish Baltic Sea coast. The submarine is about 20 meters long and 3 meters wide.

It is unclear how old the submarine is and how long it has been laying on the sea floor, but the Cyrillic letters on the hull suggests that it is Russian.

[...]

 

[Hakim]

No one knows how old it is yet. Navy thinks it's from the 80s (or they are worried about the implications that it's new). Someone on TV speculated that it could be a WW1 sub which would be pretty cool.

 

[red_elk]

Are there images of it? If it's from WW1, it can possibly be established from Cyrillic inscription, because Russian Empire and USSR used slightly different alphabets.

 

[Hakim]

According to video footage (that has not been released to media) there are Cyrillic characters on the boat but there is no info on what it says. It is believed that it's a submarine that collided with a Swedish ship spring 1916, the length and width seem to fit.

 

[red_elk]

Russian media published a few pictures of (allegedly) found submarine.

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/07/28/som/

According to the article, it is the submarine named "Сом" (Catfish), which was built in 1901 and lost in 1916 after it collided with a Swedish steambot.
Picture shows the letter "Ъ", which is very rarely used in modern Russian, but was common in pre-revolution Russian Empire. As I guessed

Picture of the submarine from wikipedia:

Spoiler :

 

[Loppan Torkel]

According to the article, it is the submarine named "Сом" (Catfish), which was built in 1901 and lost in 1916 after it collided with a Swedish steambot.
Picture shows the letter "Ъ", which is very rarely used in modern Russian, but was common in pre-revolution Russian Empire. As I guessed

Yes, nothing remarkable about the finding, except perhaps the timing. The divers most likely knew it was the old sub but kept hinting it could be something newer. The thing is that the specific location of the sub may have been known much earlier than this, i e the sub has been found before, but without the media attention.
So, the finding by itself isn't very interesting and I hope the story ends with this. It wouldn't be out of this world to see this used for something something by some nation.

 

[Oerdin]

What I read was that sub wreck was from WW1.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sweden Yes.