Foreign submarine in Swedish waters

[red_elk]

Unexpected and clever move from Sweden - they decided to fight against Russian submarines, using gay-propaganda.
Special neon signs put underwater, should scare off submarine captains (everybody knows Russians are homophobes)

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/h...skaptener-bort-med-neonskylt-pa-havets-botten

 

[EnglishEdward]

I doubt it. Fishing boats lose nets. Sometimes they know what they snagged on, sometimes they don't. Sometimes when the don't they say "submarine", and sometimes maybe it is. But I don't know of any practical way to know, so counting is pretty much out. There wouldn't even be any official classified way to count because a sub catching a fishing net may not even notice.

In the context of Irish trawlers.

If they notice they are being towed backwards at 10 knots against prevailing current or wind;
it is a bit of a hint that the "rock" the nets are snagged on is moving under power.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In the context of Irish trawlers.

If they notice they are being towed backwards at 10 knots against prevailing current or wind;
it is a bit of a hint that the "rock" the nets are snagged on is moving under power.

I said the sub probably wouldn't notice. This actually illustrates that they don't. Submarines try to keep their location undetected. If they noticed that they were towing a fishing boat as a marker they would stop.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I said the sub probably wouldn't notice. This actually illustrates that they don't. Submarines try to keep their location undetected. If they noticed that they were towing a fishing boat as a marker they would stop.

Unless it is a very small boat, it would noticeably increase the submarine's drag.

 

[red_elk]

Depends also on submarine, I guess. There are submarines with 50k tonnes displacement.

Spoiler :

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Unless it is a very small boat, it would noticeably increase the submarine's drag.

Which they would notice...eventually...maybe.

Here we have equipment that shows speed through the water.

Here we have an indication of shaft RPM.

Yes there is a correlation between these two things.

No, it is not a simple linear relationship, nor is it a constant, nor is it something that is monitored as a high priority.

Someone will no doubt eventually say "Man, do turns seem really high for this speed at this depth?" People will start puzzling over this. "Water temp?" "Salinity?" "Are the indications correct?" That one by the way will take some time to get past the probably not stage, because unless things have changed substantially speed through the water is a really crappy system that nobody really cares about that much to start with so it is always taken with a grain of salt. Somebody will be checking movement by the plot, and the actual priority is going to be making sure we really are where we think that we are.

Then there's a bit of WTH? Eventually, maybe, someone says "Could we be snagged and dragging?" About then sonar is starting to think it's strange that some fishing boat has coincidentally steered onto our track. Not that that doesn't happen. There really are only so many directions to go, and if you are snagging a fishing boat you are probably not out in the wide open ocean so that reduces the possibilities.

BUT...all this has to happen faster than their nets give way. Or get cut away. Which if the fishing boat people are smart they are doing with some alacrity, because as soon as they know they have a submarine they need to be thinking "It can go deep...and it can come back. We can't."

 

[r16]

a Typhoon must be around 20 000 , but ı have read about projects aiming to build 50 000 merchant carriers ; are they realized in any way ?

as for the fishing boat wouldn't it be heard passively ? ı know there are those things called thermo something layers where it's possible ships above can not hear submarines directly below but ı would guess subs would be more attentive listeners . Or is it that fishing nets can be hundreds of meters long ?

 

[red_elk]

a Typhoon must be around 20 000

Up to 48k submerged. At least internets say so.

 

[r16]

another question for Timsup2nothin then ... Is it really possible that the Russians pulled up another sly one on the West and led them to believe it was only half size ? ı have this one book about submarines and it's from like 1900s . Where the number is 20 or so .

 

[High King J.J.]

Unexpected and clever move from Sweden - they decided to fight against Russian submarines, using gay-propaganda.
Special neon signs put underwater, should scare off submarine captains (everybody knows Russians are homophobes)

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/h...skaptener-bort-med-neonskylt-pa-havets-botten

I have just one question. If gay propaganda is illegal in Russia (or parts of it anyway, I don't want a link to some Russian legal code site that I don't understand a word of), then why is Putin always so often posing shirtless and oiled up? I'm not gay so I don't care to guess what such persons find attractive but at least Putin's hald naked photos fill me with revulsion.

About foreign subs trespassing, I recommend using depth charges unless they surface and surrender. If some country, I'm not pointing any fingers, claims they have nothing to do with any possible sub sighting, then they are certainly in no position to complain about any such sub being sunk.
It's the same in Eastern Ukraine. If some unnamed country claims they have no troops there, they can not complain if any unknown troops are carpet bombed to pulp as terrorists they really are.

 

[red_elk]

If gay propaganda is illegal in Russia (or parts of it anyway, I don't want a link to some Russian legal code site that I don't understand a word of), then why is Putin always so often posing shirtless and oiled up? I'm not gay so I don't care to guess what such persons find attractive but at least Putin's hald naked photos fill me with revulsion.

Publishing such pictures is not considered gay propaganda in Russia. They sometimes cause emotional reaction (disgust or excitement) among gays, but straight men usually indifferent to them.

 

[FriendlyFire]

 

[Timsup2nothin]

a Typhoon must be around 20 000 , but ı have read about projects aiming to build 50 000 merchant carriers ; are they realized in any way ?

as for the fishing boat wouldn't it be heard passively ? ı know there are those things called thermo something layers where it's possible ships above can not hear submarines directly below but ı would guess subs would be more attentive listeners . Or is it that fishing nets can be hundreds of meters long ?

You've got it. Hearing the fishing boat doesn't tell you where the nets are.

 

[High King J.J.]

Publishing such pictures is not considered gay propaganda in Russia. They sometimes cause emotional reaction (disgust or excitement) among gays, but straight men usually indifferent to them.

I should clarify that all pictures that show his face cause that revulsion.

I thought maybe Putin outlawed all gay propaganda so that his pictures would have no competition now that he's single?

 

[Oerdin]

Didn't the Finns use depth charges to warn the Russian sub to get out of Finnish waters?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Didn't the Finns use depth charges to warn the Russian sub to get out of Finnish waters?

This is always a concern on a submarine. We are hiding, with the intent that they don't know we are here. So what keeps them from just dropping a "depth charge exercise" on us and saying "oh, sorry, didn't know you were hiding there."

 

[High King J.J.]

Finns dropped no real depth charges, although you could not have guessed that from the way Russian news published it. Some lied outright claiming Finns detonated a depth charge and tried to destroy an unknown target (Radio station Russkaja sluzhba novostei). But since I don't speak or read Russian, red_elk would comment me posting any links in Russian. Since very few readers here understand Finnish, I see little reason to post Finnish language links here either.
Finns dropped a few small grenades designed to warn a sub so they know they are found. They are designed not to damage a sub in any way.
I think it's a shame they didn't use real depth charges. Since a certain country denies their subs are there they would have no reason to object. However if it's a nuclear boat and the reactor fails we'd have an enviromental disaster in our hands. On the other hand I think it's likely that Russia uses subs to place nuclear mines on shipping lines or near important coastal cities. That way they can detonate later, perhaps years later and deny all responsibility. They planned the Anschluss of Crimea for years, they are not increasing their forces on Finnish border because they fear Finns will take back the stolen Karelia. A small nuke going off near Stockholm would keep Sweden from deciding to help Finland, not that they have a real army anymore. They have some navy though.

By the way, a small plane is missing over the Baltic Sea. It left Älvängen, Sweden yesterday Saturday 16th of May towards Klaipeda, Lithuania. It disappeared without a trace. My guess is one of the countless Russian military flights may have collided with it. Russians fly their fighters and nuclear bombers over the Baltic Sea all the time causing danger to civilian air traffic. Russians keep their radar transponders off so civilian air traffic can't detect them. This has been going on for a while. They have also practised airstrikes against Sweden with their nuclear bombers. A big Tupolev can drop a small plane without suffering too much damage in midair collision or a fighter can shoot a small plane down for... well the russians have never needed any reason to shoot planes down. But this may be considered off-topic for this thread so I'll drop the subject here.

 

[red_elk]

On the other hand I think it's likely that Russia uses subs to place nuclear mines on shipping lines or near important coastal cities. That way they can detonate later, perhaps years later and deny all responsibility. They planned the Anschluss of Crimea for years, they are not increasing their forces on Finnish border because they fear Finns will take back the stolen Karelia. A small nuke going off near Stockholm would keep Sweden from deciding to help Finland, not that they have a real army anymore. They have some navy though.

I also heard that Nepal earthquake was caused by the Russians testing their tectonic weapon. Did you see similar reports in Finnish media?

 

[classical_hero]

Finally you admit the truth. I was wondering when you would speak truthfully.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

On the other hand I think it's likely that Russia uses subs to place nuclear mines on shipping lines or near important coastal cities. That way they can detonate later, perhaps years later and deny all responsibility.

I just want to point out the absurdity here.

If a nuclear weapon detonates outside a Finnish port...ever...what chance do you think Russia has of "denying all responsibility"? What do you think they could propose as an alternative theory? Spontaneous nuclear combustion? An assault by dissident herring demanding an end to their exploitation?

In the FWIW department, the deploying of mines is a time honored use for submarines, and undoubtedly a nuclear mine is far more exciting than a traditional mine. However, a nuclear weapon requires extensive maintenance to be kept operable, so deployment in mines on the 'detonate in the far future' plan is not practical. Given the relative naval strength of Russia and Finland, should the Russians ever want to produce the described result they would most likely just sail a submarine to a point outside the harbor and fire a nuclear warhead into the harbor on a torpedo.