Formula behind getting cheaper techs when meeting civs

[JamesCivFan]

I (and many others) have seen that techs get cheaper --especially in early game-- the more civs you meet. Does anyone know what exactly is the formula behind it? For example does it work with "the number of civs you met" or "the percentage of civs you met"?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wcbarney]

I (and many others) have seen that techs get cheaper --especially in early game-- the more civs you meet. Does anyone know what exactly is the formula behind it? For example does it work with "the number of civs you met" or "the percentage of civs you met"? ...

Ummm -- I don't think so. Your perception that techs get cheaper in the early game "the more civs you meet" is wrong. The techs seem to get cheaper in the early game because your capitol and other cities are growing quickly. Every increase in population will cause a corresponding decrease in research time because directly correlates with population.

 

[Fluffball]

I haven't looked into this a great deal but isn't it based on how many civs already know the tech so the more that already knwo it the cheaper it becomes for others to learn it?

 

[MkLh]

I haven't looked into this a great deal but isn't it based on how many civs already know the tech so the more that already knwo it the cheaper it becomes for others to learn it?

I think it's that way. You don't need to meet any other civs to get that boost.

 

[JamesCivFan]

I'm fairly sure it's not because of pop growth... I've seen MadDjinn and WainyCiv mention it too in their Deity Let's Play's. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Dishonor]

I haven't looked into this a great deal but isn't it based on how many civs already know the tech so the more that already knwo it the cheaper it becomes for others to learn it?

That was in Civ IV. Not in Civ V, when was released. So unless it was changed in some patch, there is no technology discount. You can try to modify GlobalDefines.xml.

This one seems like 30% discount, if every other civs know given technology. But it hasn't any impact, when I modified it. It was probably just copied from Civ IV, when Civ V was developed...
- <Row Name="TECH_COST_TOTAL_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER">
<Value>30</Value>
</Row>

When you play, you can see some civs really behind in research. They should reintroduce this modifier. And it shouldn't be 30%, but something like 90%, if you are last one.

 

[MkLh]

When you play, you can see some civs really behind in research. They should reintroduce this modifier. And it shouldn't be 30%, but something like 90%, if you are last one.

Why? It doesn't make sense to me that if a Civ is unable to tech, it will get techs virtually free.

 

[Jaybe]

- <Row Name="TECH_COST_TOTAL_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER">
<Value>30</Value>
</Row>

That is regarding multi-player games ... for when you have multiple players on a single team. Not for AI civs.

 

[wcbarney]

I (and many others) have seen that techs get cheaper --especially in early game-- the more civs you meet. Does anyone know what exactly is the formula behind it? For example does it work with "the number of civs you met" or "the percentage of civs you met"?

Your perception that techs get cheaper in the early game "the more civs you meet" is wrong. The techs seem to get cheaper in the early game because your capitol and other cities are growing quickly. Every increase in population will cause a corresponding decrease in research time because directly correlates with population.

I haven't looked into this a great deal but isn't it based on how many civs already know the tech so the more that already knwo it the cheaper it becomes for others to learn it?

I think it's that way. You don't need to meet any other civs to get that boost.

No. This is just plain wrong; where do ideas like this come from??

I'm fairly sure it's not because of pop growth... I've seen MadDjinn and WainyCiv mention it too in their Deity Let's Play's. Can anyone confirm this?

C'mon! I wasn't making this stuff up! You get at the get-go just based on population. When you build libraries, universities, public schools, etc. you get more per pop than without these science buildings. With science multipliers like the National College and the Observatory you get another 50% more for that city.

 

[RonMar]

In support of the more known civs have researched the tech:

In the same column of the tech tree, techs generally have the same number of turns to research -- you have to look ahead to see this since earlier columns may have already been affected.

As you proceed through the game, especially if you are behind in tech or if an AI has beelined. The research time (turns) indicated on a tech column may show different numbers of turns for techs which originally started out with the same turn requirements.

The theory can be tested empirically if you compare techs often enough and throughout the game. Unless, of course, you and the AI are always following the same path tech by tech through the tech tree and you are ahead or even with them.

I'll check it myself next game. It either happens or it does not. Our opinions don't change the way it works.

 

[Ranos]

No. This is just plain wrong; where do ideas like this come from??

They get it from paying attention.

C'mon! I wasn't making this stuff up! You get at the get-go just based on population. When you build libraries, universities, public schools, etc. you get more per pop than without these science buildings. With science multipliers like the National College and the Observatory you get another 50% more for that city.

Yes the more science you have the faster techs get researched, but it doesn't make them cheaper. Go to the tech tree when you reach the renaissance era. Check the cost for techs in the same level of the tree. If you are ahead of everyone in tech, this won't work. If there are multiple civs ahead of you in tech, then you will see that techs that are in the same level will cost different amounts.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Maybe MadDjinn or WainyCiv can confirm this too, since they were the ones to say it first (at least, from the LP's that I've seen so far). Or at least someone who knows and is 100% sure if that's true or not. If it is, there must be a certain formula for it. If not, I'm just wrong.

 

[MkLh]

No. This is just plain wrong; where do ideas like this come from??

In Civ4 it was just like that. Apparently not in Civ5 then.

 

[qemist]

Someone more knowledgeable than us has already posted the formula.

Short answer, the number of civs you know who know the tech reduces the cost.

 

[MkLh]

Someone more knowledgeable than us has already posted the formula.

Short answer, the number of civs you know who know the tech reduces the cost.

That's stupid. It means that an isolated civ is in even worse situation tech vise. What were the devs thinking, again?

 

[comatosedragon]

That's stupid. It means that an isolated civ is in even worse situation tech vise. What were the devs thinking, again?

Why shouldn't an isolated CIV be in worse position tech wise? Learning something new in a vaccuum is surely not as easy as learning something your friend (or even enemy) already knows. I may not be as eloquent as many on the forums, but this makes perfect sense to me. And if you look at the formula, it's actually not a huge difference.

 

[Polycrates]

Very few technologies in history were developed in isolation by every civ who developed them. Most technological developments were passed on by some sort of diffusion process - either copied wholesale, or just the general idea and the specifics worked out again. Writing, for example, was probably only ever invented entirely de novo two or three times (in Sumeria and Mesoamerica, and probably also in China) - everyone else inherited at least parts of other peoples' ideas to create their own systems.
And isolated peoples have in fact tended to be far, far slower than well-connected ones at developing technologies - to a FAR greater degree than any civ game would ever dare to model.

I think a tech diffusion model is one thing Civ V really needs (if it does have one, it's very very weak). It's an important rubberband mechanism to ensure that civs that might be out of the running for the victory don't just languish as complete non-entities forever, and it of course gives those isolated civs a chance to start catching up a bit once they do make contact. Of course they'll never get anywhere near the big boys with this sort of system (the closer they get to parity, the lesser the benefits become), but it will at least ensure that half the civs don't languish two or three eras behind the rest.

 

[MkLh]

Why shouldn't an isolated CIV be in worse position tech wise? Learning something new in a vaccuum is surely not as easy as learning something your friend (or even enemy) already knows. I may not be as eloquent as many on the forums, but this makes perfect sense to me. And if you look at the formula, it's actually not a huge difference.

Because an isolated civ is in bad position already as it can't do resource sells or research agreements until meeting someone. I'm valuing game play balance more than realism here.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Look in the Strategy Articles Forum... there should be a number cruncher thread

 

[JamesCivFan]

Ah so there was a formula after all as I thought... Thanks. And the general rule is (since it's not based on percentage of civs , but on the actual number), the more civs in a game, the cheaper the techs, as far as you keep exploring and knowing more and more.