Fort spamming

[Tsathoggua]

I do worry that the commander will be too expensive (AI), as a catapult+axeman can do the same job. But seeing as they have only a handful, that is probably not a problem.

If I recall it's the commander that does the culture spreading, so maybe not.

 

[Valkrionn]

It is not, no. The commander originally spread the culture, but that is now handled innately by the improvements. You can have the culture provided by a fort without a fort commander, it'll just be vulnerable to theft by other players.

 

[Luckmann]

....Why would you pillage the fort? Why not simply delete the fort commander, as it is the unit that costs extra maintenance?

Because it leaves an exposed fort, obviously.

 

[Calavente]

But that flat out destroys any use of them. I play aggressively yet I newer get more than 3-4 Great Commanders in a game.
If you make forts such a limited commodity than how are people supposed to claim resources and do other stuff like block choke points?
I mean, you will be reducing forts to a novelty thing you almost newer build instead of a normal improvement.

it is not really limited : playing quick/small and aggressive in mid-late game, I have 6-7 GC... and at least 4 of them are lvl 4, some are lvl 3 and some are lvl 5-6/ meaning with the new system I could have built : 20-25 forts or command posts. As I have 2 command post that makes more than 20 forts !!! even now I haven't built that number... only 7 forts !!!

 

[Andvare]

it is not really limited : playing quick/small and aggressive in mid-late game, I have 6-7 GC... and at least 4 of them are lvl 4, some are lvl 3 and some are lvl 5-6/ meaning with the new system I could have built : 20-25 forts or command posts. As I have 2 command post that makes more than 20 forts !!! even now I haven't built that number... only 7 forts !!!

Only 20? Hah!

This game is my Khazad. I completely blocked in three civs, and partially blocked two other civs.
The barbs was never a threat, as my forts were strong enough to handle everything thrown at them.
Can't remember how many forts I build, but it was more than 20.
The replay shows the extent of this sillyness (only on monarch, I like to play on a low diff when trying out new things).

I also had a game as the Mechanos, where I was DOW'ed by the evil lizards. They were no threat, as I has so many forts between them and I, but I hadn't built any siege units yet, nor had much in terms of combat than warriors. I won that war because I could build a fort right next to their capital (plus they had also build one right next to it). The combined range combat of two forts took care of that city.

 

[Calavente]

Andvare :

well, if you built more than 20 forts, it's clearly is fort-spamming. that has to go IMO.(I remind you that on a small map... 40 forts covers the whole world.
So 20 cover about 1/2 world. If you built more, just to "isolate yourself" you weren't playing a small map. and obviously, on a larger map, you'll have more ennemies, so more GC.

Saying that limiting 1fort per level of GC is "limitating"... it's wrong. I've shown that in a small map, with few fights, one can easily build, with GC, 20+forts.
You can build the other one you want with workers if you want.


I wasn't saying that 20 forts is OP, just that even with the actual way of building forts, I'm building less what would be allowed to me under the next mechanism

 

[dunedainjedi]

I also had a game as the Mechanos, where I was DOW'ed by the evil lizards. They were no threat, as I has so many forts between them and I, but I hadn't built any siege units yet, nor had much in terms of combat than warriors. I won that war because I could build a fort right next to their capital (plus they had also build one right next to it). The combined range combat of two forts took care of that city.

See at this point the GCs popping forts becomes an exploit to me. If the AI is dumb enough to build a fort next door to their capital by all means use it. But rolling your SoD in, popping a fort for the collateral damage+cultural healing just feels like cheating to me.

Support costs + 1 GC pop/lvl is the best way to handle it. I'd prefer to see GCs not be able to cast field fortification in enemy territory.

 

[Elwist]

As I was reading this the idea, which may be bad, occurred to me that if you were not to give the forts a commander until they grew the first time this might help. You could still build the forts, but you would have to protect them for some time before they could defend themselves so you would either have to have more troops, take longer between each fort, or leave them unguarded to be potentially claimed by other people.

 

[RFHolloway]

or even convert an exisiting unit to a fort commander rather than provide essentially a free unit.