Fortresses

[darkedone02]

i have a idea for forts, allow military employment units (MEU) to settle around citys and so forth that can only produce units and upgrades of the fortess to make it a impregable fortress. So we have two units that can make new things, Settler and MEU.

 

[Quetz]

Pointing out once more that all of those features are in the mod JFort, which I'm sure could be adapted to FFH. Simple and it works, and it is already coded

even simpler, JZoC, which just stops enemy movement and does some damage to enemies that enter a forts ZoC
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181921

 

[PapaMonkey]

The unit idea is a pretty neat idea, especially with an Engineer or Architect unit that built it. But the unit would have to be imune to the Marksman ability.

I think that we are getting a bit complicated though. For upkeep, make it cost 1 (it is a unit, no change to code). Any unit inside will count to upkeep in the standard manner. Why go to any more trouble.

Treat it as a zero strength, capturable unit. For effects, have it grant a bonus to defend to all units that start their turn in the square (similar code exists for tree-top defense spell). Then allow the fort to gain XP (this would require code to give it XP for any battle that took place in that square). That XP could be applied to a limited number of promotions:
- Heal (medical facilities)
- Sentry line of promos
- Increases to defensive benefits
- Rally (mobility or withdraw promotion provided to units starting their turn in the fort)

All this requires only a small amount of coding, but lets just about everything be accomplished that has been discussed. It also alows for the flexibility to use the fort in a variety of ways.

All well and good, but can the AI use it?!?

 

[Sureshot]

ya, thats one of my main concerns, AI useability.

one that i think the AI would be able to use amazingly is this one from another thread

i really like the idea of using Forts are a resource gathering building... but maybe for Sentry towers?!

wow thats a good idea! since sentry towers are considered resources, why not make forts be the building they need? then AIs would atleast build forts on sentry towers, itd prolly look neat, and protecting it would be useful!!

maybe have it give some promo, like free Sentry promotion for scouts.

a few more like your Dark Eye thing would be fun too, and we'd see forts being used more often! great idea

 

[Sureshot]

i made a simple modification to two xml files (bonus infos and improvement infos) and now the AI's build fortresses on sentry towers and guard them

super easy fix, makes sentry towers useful when theyre in your borders (normally theyre not since they dont show much you cant already see), and most importantly the AI builds the forts and protects them!

(i also made forts give +100% defense instead of 25%, since 25% is useless!! )

 

[dreiche2]

Well, using a resource is at least an interesting idea... then you could also use map scripts to place those resources on choke points...

 

[Maniac]

i made a simple modification to two xml files (bonus infos and improvement infos) and now the AI's build fortresses on sentry towers and guard them

Do you have those files uploaded somewhere? I'd like to test it.

 

[Sureshot]

no, ill upload it in a sec tho

 

[Sureshot]

here's it, just a change to forts in improvement infos to make them work sentry towers, and a change in bonus infos to give sentry towers +1 happiness until something more fitting is setup (they need a non-yield bonus to make the AI value it outside of a cities radius).

 

[Maniac]

Thanks!

(they need a non-yield bonus to make the AI value it outside of a cities radius).

Hmm, then how come they value strategic resources outside base radii? (or at least I assume they do.)

 

[Sureshot]

hmm.. im not sure, but the first try i did they didnt seem to build forts on the towers outside their radius, maybe they had other pressing concerns

ideally theyd work like mana, offering instead something like +2xp to recon or free sntry promotion to recon, or some such

 

[CuteKills]

Here's a notion:

You could implement something like a ZOC with something like the old bombard (think how the Wall of fire works).

You can stroll past the fort just fine, but risk getting chopped up by the collateral damage as the defenders snipe at you.

I like +100% though - I've patched mine to that, as +25% is downright silly.

 

[Sureshot]

grab my assets.zip thingy in post 129

it does forts at +100% and makes forts improve sentry towers, the AI's build them and guard them then..
try it with dreiches flavour maps for great effect, since that places sentry towers strategically in bottlenecks/chokepoints so the forts there come in handy and the ais use them well

 

[Gamestation]

How did someone so new to posting find this thread? It's been dead for over a month!

EDIT: Nevermind, found out that Sureshot pointed back at this thread

 

[Sureshot]

i mentioned and linked it when he brought up fortresses in balance thread figure its better to put all posts about certain topics together until somethin is done about them

 

[CuteKills]

grab my assets.zip thingy in post 129

it does forts at +100% and makes forts improve sentry towers, the AI's build them and guard them then..
try it with dreiches flavour maps for great effect, since that places sentry towers strategically in bottlenecks/chokepoints so the forts there come in handy and the ais use them well

Have done, thanks.

I'll see how it goes next game.

( I'll dust off my Python book, too... )

 

[eerr]

(i also made forts give +100% defense instead of 25%, since 25% is useless!! )

yea... you can't even put them on top of rescource improvements- which is just about the only place i would even consider using a 25% bonus

 

[Sureshot]

i made a fort-as-feature change set before, though i didnt like how it looked, would need new images for it

 

[PapaMonkey]

I'm revising this old thread as I still would like to see viable Forts back in Civ. I've been thinking of this for a while and I would like to go back to an idea someone had earlier in ths thread: make a fort a unit. Have workers or a new engineer unit be able to create a fort, disbanding the worker for the new 'Fort Unit'. The unit would be zero movement and a minimal strength (1 or 2). Now the Fort can defend itself, but the better ability is that it imparts a mild bonus to defense on any unit sharing its square (+25&#37.

This would mean that the fort has a maintenace cost already factored in (as a unit) and can be placed on any tile (including a city - many forts were part of city defenses). The unit would also be able to gain experience and promotions. Applicable promotions would be sentry, healing, and a promotion that increased the defense bonus imparted on units stationed in the fort.

I would also suggest a new funtionality for this (and possibly other manufactured units such as catapults) where you can buy XP for the unit. Maybe 2-5 gold per XP point, buying in lots that get you to the next promotional level. This would simulate building on a barbican, tower, hospital, scrying chamber or other functionality onto the fort.

For the fantasy setting, you could also add promotions to allow for summoning chambers (unlocked at the tech that allows a Conjurer). All sorts of interesting things could be made of this.

 

[Silverkiss]

Again, I strongly support the idea of fort being a unit. And the ability to buy experience points for some units (catapults, forts, etc) is a good idea too.