Founding decision

[Kim Dong Un]

With the recent increase to founded religions (from 4 to 5 in standard speed), there are games where I find myself able to found a religion, even while having no intentions and not playing a religious civ. I would like some advice on what the best course of action is, using a current example below.

I'm in a game that has me fortified with a few CS in the southwest of my continent, while Byzantium is northeast, and Spain occupies the west/southwest. An unknown civ founded Islam first on another continent, followed by Japan's Shinto to the north of Theodora. Both Byz and Spain found and I'm left a few turns later asking myself if I should even grab the last religion.

Should you always found a religion if given the chance, regardless of you not being able to reform? Or are there instances, such as the above example, where the player is best off just adopting based on situation?

 

[tu_79]

With the recent increase to founded religions (from 4 to 5 in standard speed), there are games where I find myself able to found a religion, even while having no intentions and not playing a religious civ. I would like some advice on what the best course of action is, using a current example below.

I'm in a game that has me fortified with a few CS in the southwest of my continent, while Byzantium is northeast, and Spain occupies the west/southwest. An unknown civ founded Islam first on another continent, followed by Japan's Shinto to the north of Theodora. Both Byz and Spain found and I'm left a few turns later asking myself if I should even grab the last religion.

Should you always found a religion if given the chance, regardless of you not being able to reform? Or are there instances, such as the above example, where the player is best off just adopting based on situation?

If you know you can't keep your religion and it is not a hard work for you to found, get yourself a follower belief with buildings, purchase them and then let the other religions convert your cities.

 

[YukiN]

With the recent increase to founded religions (from 4 to 5 in standard speed), there are games where I find myself able to found a religion, even while having no intentions and not playing a religious civ. I would like some advice on what the best course of action is, using a current example below.

I'm in a game that has me fortified with a few CS in the southwest of my continent, while Byzantium is northeast, and Spain occupies the west/southwest. An unknown civ founded Islam first on another continent, followed by Japan's Shinto to the north of Theodora. Both Byz and Spain found and I'm left a few turns later asking myself if I should even grab the last religion.

Should you always found a religion if given the chance, regardless of you not being able to reform? Or are there instances, such as the above example, where the player is best off just adopting based on situation?

Founding means you can't full adopt another religion. That's quite a big problem if you plan on taking control of another religion.

 

[chicorbeef]

If you're planning on conquering don't found. Otherwise taking Pagodas and/or some other religious UB/Syncretism (or maybe try to defend your Religion with the help of stuff like Inquisition/Fealty) is a decent plan. Syncretism is basically built for this kind of situation.

 

[Bhawb]

If you found and then conquer an enemy holy city you'll still end up taking over the religion if it is your majority religion. At least that is my experience because I've screwed myself before (example at the end). So if you end up with a religion do as tu_79 said - get a faith building and buy it in your cities. If you plan to take over a local religion just make sure you convert your cities to their religion first, and it will override your founded one.

This is also why you need to be careful if you conquer a holy city of an enemy that is actively competing for followers in your empire. I've accidentally lost a religion I founded specifically to have ultra-pastures with strong warmongering beliefs as Poland, only to capture a Celtic holy city and end up with that as my primary religion since they had converted majority of my cities.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Maybe my situation was unique, but I ended up adopting the Byz religion because she selected all follower/pantheon beliefs. I did in fact receive all benefits from her choices. She had a combo of Asceticism, Cooperation, Love, and Expanse (my original pantheon), while finishing with Defender of the Faith. I knew that I'd be going statecraft and not fealty, and I'm trying for friendships so also wanted the positive diplo modifier for adopting her religion. Having Defender of Faith will be useful once Japan and Spain inevitably attack.

So basically unless you're going to be conquering, or come across a rare and unique situation, it's always better to found (even just to get another religious building in your cities) regardless of your cities being converted in the future?

Has syncretism/pagodas actually proven itself to be a worthwhile choice in given situations?

 

[Enginseer]

Syncretism and pagodas are based if you are sandwiched between two major religion or are the Byzantines.

The combo here is that you should be able to take Syncretism regardless if you are last in religion(because the AIs never seem to decide Syncretism is good even when they are sandwiched with 5 religions) and pagodas can be taken off your bonus belief this allows your religion to give you ridiculous amount of bonuses based on diversity. Helps make up for your unhappiness needs in exchange for religious strife(which is not a problem given you get huge faith-generation).

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Syncretism and pagodas are based if you are sandwiched between two major religion or are the Byzantines.

The combo here is that you should be able to take Syncretism regardless if you are last in religion(because the AIs never seem to decide Syncretism is good even when they are sandwiched with 5 religions) and pagodas can be taken off your bonus belief this allows your religion to give you ridiculous amount of bonuses based on diversity. Helps make up for your unhappiness needs in exchange for religious strife(which is not a problem given you get huge faith-generation).

I understand the mechanics behind them and when to take them, I was just curious if people have found them to be on par strength wise with the other beliefs. I remember when the religious changes took place a little while ago, people were saying Syncretism and pagodas were underwhelming (along with the added unhappiness you'll bring on)...

I'll put it this way, do you think I would have got more yields over the course of the game from founding myself (and not reforming) with Syncretism/pagodas, or from adopting Byz's religion and receiving all 4 of her pantheon/follower beliefs? After playing more, I'm glad I didn't found and went with adopting in this specific example so I guess it all depends. Using Byz probably isn't a great example because any other time you adopt, you'll only be receiving 2 (pantheon/follower), possibly 3 (reformation) beliefs.

 

[Enginseer]

I understand the mechanics behind them and when to take them, I was just curious if people have found them to be on par strength wise with the other beliefs. I remember when the religious changes took place a little while ago, people were saying Syncretism and pagodas were underwhelming (along with the added unhappiness you'll bring on)...

I'll put it this way, do you think I would have got more yields over the course of the game from founding myself (and not reforming) with Syncretism/pagodas, or from adopting Byz's religion and receiving all 4 of her pantheon/follower beliefs? After playing more, I'm glad I didn't found and went with adopting in this specific example so I guess it all depends.

It's definitely hard since Pagodas don't generate enough Faith to feed itself whereas other Faith buildings usually buy itself off in due time due to its extra effect. Unless your religion offers a way to get ez faith. The synergy is definitely not worth it since you can't get the synergy fast enough.

 

[chicorbeef]

It's definitely hard since Pagodas don't generate enough Faith to feed itself whereas other Faith buildings usually buy itself off in due time due to its extra effect. Unless your religion offers a way to get ez faith. The synergy is definitely not worth it since you can't get the synergy fast enough.

Yeah, this. If you can get Pagodas up quickly it's definitely worth founding and then enhancing with Syncretism (letting Byzantium spread to you after spreading a bit) but if this is not viable then just straight adoption will be better.

You don't have to have Pagodas btw (I just thought it would be better given you're sandwiched with 2 other religions). Another religious building would work too. Pagodas are just the most clearly synergistic one.