If I'm not wrong, Napoleon's quote was used for the Steam Power tech in Civ 4, so I wouldn't put it past them.
France's UA - why does it end at Steam Power?
- Thread starter Smokeybear
- Start date
If I'm not wrong, Napoleon's quote was used for the Steam Power tech in Civ 4, so I wouldn't put it past them.
Steelyglint
Warlord
Smokeybear
Emperor
Agreed. Just about every civ's UA in the game could have the same arguements used to insist that they be cancelled out at some point during the course of the milenia... due to actual factual historical reasons. The fact that only France's UA was rendered MIA partway through the game, is a real head-scratcher. Why get all 'historically uptight' on them over theirs, when none of the other civs, whose UA's can all be equally subject to cancellation or modification on the same kinds of grounds, did not? Unfair, and illogical.
Smokeybear
Emperor
Ok! So, the game's UA's have to start and/or stop at true historical points, you're saying. So, America can't have its UA start until Gunpowder and the minuteman, because America didn't actually historically exist before that; as mentioned in a previous post, the Hellenic League disappeared during Roman times, thousands of years ago... so by this logic, Greece's UA has to disappear around that era, as well. And on and on. There would be no civ's UA in the entire game that would last for very long, if you applied this fairly and evenly.
Obviously, that would make for a pretty dull game, with most of the civ's UA's only occurring for smaller parts of the game, and not even existing in the rest. But, hey- lets single out France, and just_do_it_to_them... because... hey, it's historical! Stupidity, and completely unfair. And that is that.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Steelyglint said:
Just because we're saying this one UA is lore-based and historical, doesn't mean we're saying ALL the nations in Civ have lore-based/historical UA completely consistent with France's. It's not our fault if Firaxis was inconsistent.
EDIT: Quoted the wrong person, lol. (Sorry Smokeybear!)
Smokeybear
Emperor
Just because we're saying this one UA is lore-based, doesn't mean we're saying ALL the nations in Civ have lore-based/historical UA completely consistent with France's. It's not our fault if Firaxis was inconsistent.
Of course. I was just pointing out how odd it was that they chose to only give the shaft to France. Maybe they're all of English ancestry... nah, they didn't do Elizabeth any favors, either... lol!
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Sorry, quoted the wrong person! I fixed it.
For England, they need to give a merchant bonus of some kind....
For England, they need to give a merchant bonus of some kind....
Lexicus
Deity
Actually, it was the most powerful continental power until the unification of Germany. Germany purely outclassed the French by the end of the nineteenth century, at least in industrial production, even without an extensive colonial empire.
I'd actually say it's purely because of balance reasons.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Several civs have UA which do not become relevant until later eras of the game. From a balance and game play standpoint this puts them at a disadvantage to civs that have their UA from the start. It seems reasonable that their should be a sunset period for some abilities (like the French UA being discussed). Some civs also have UU which come very early and obsolete. Some have UB while others do not. It is important to look at the whole package.
I personally think that every civ deserves to have a UB of some kind. It seems to me that having two UU does not make up for the lack of a UB.
I personally think that every civ deserves to have a UB of some kind. It seems to me that having two UU does not make up for the lack of a UB.
Cicerosaurus
Emperor
I would have thought that France was the most powerful continental power after 1918 until sometime in the mid 1930's. Not that that is relevant to steam power.
Steelyglint
Warlord
France was completely in 1918. It would have been the Entente more than any single nation, I think (Russia being fresh out of a revolution and Britain not being continental), for at least a little while after 1918. I was reading the column in the garden which does news stories from ninety years ago and it get referring to the Entente so presumably it still existed as an alliance after the war. Someone correct me please. ^^
Darn, you got me.
And you're right, England's UA doesn't really relate to the strengths of the British Empire, but as you say Firaxis is inconsistent. What does +1 sight have to do with America, for instance, or 25% building hammers to do with Rome? idk, but I'd have thought a lot less than horses and invading smaller, weaker neighbours have to do with Mongolia or building big buildings has to do with Egypt.
+1, with the exception of Greece which has its UUs at the same time.
Just wanted to point out that there are other civs as well whose UAs partially obsolete. Example : Mongols +1 horse move (no use after the arrival of tanks). Spain : Gold from finding natural wonders. Polynesia : Units can enter ocean. Germany & Ottomans : In late game when almost no barbs are to be found once the whole continent has been settled. There can be so many examples like that. It is purely for balance. I would give France UA another bonus just for flavour but it is already quite strong & that could make them OP.
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Presumably the historical premise was a convenient justification for them to balance France. As has been said, France has two strong military UU's that pop up just before and around the time their UA runs out, so they probably figured having that extra 2 culture per city when the cities are rapidly turning blue would be a little powerful. I think it's a good UA, they aren't there to win the game for you...
I can't imagine how taking away +2 culture per city in the "industrial" era is providing balance....by that time it's only going to add up to at most +20 or so culture during a time that you're probably getting at least like +200.
IE - It's actually removing the UA during it's weakest point....and leaves it in play during the strongest (the beginning)
RD-BH
Human
Of course,
... if you don't research steam,
... you don't lose the bonus.
... if you don't research steam,
... you don't lose the bonus.
Smokeybear
Emperor
And you quickly become militarily obsolete and helpless against the hordes... breelyint!
RD-BH
Human
LOL,
... I never said it was a good choice 8)
... I never said it was a good choice 8)
Smokeybear
Emperor
Tell that to Greece, Siam, India, and others who have quite strong UA's that help them from start to finish. While the French may have a strong start culturally early on, I don't feel it is any more powerful than any of the UA's belonging to those other civs, in actual gameplay.
