French UA

[akashsara]

Ancien Régime: +2 Culture per turn from Cities before discovering Steam Power.

Why is it effective only until Steam Power? Is it something to do with history? Or does it make France overpowered or something?

 

[sufficiency]

I vaguely recall the UA is this way because the historical Napoleon in his life time thought steam power was ridiculous. I honestly don't think it is due to any sorts of balance reasons.

 

[Draskar]

I think is related to French Revolution and Illuminism. Boost culture to allow the france to be a Social Policy Power until the french revolution time.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I also think it could very well be a balance thing, so that their UA is not overpowered.

 

[Biologist]

I think it's a combination of a balance decision (to prevent France from easily winning a cultural victory with a wide empire) and a reflection of the fact that French culture changed dramatically around the time that steam engines were becoming important.

 

[fufie]

The ancien regime ended with the french revolution and later napoleon. This is about the same time historically as when steam power and the industrial revolution got foothold on the continent.

However, french culture didn't really die with the ancien regime so this is obviously a cut off for balance reasons. French culture flourished in the 19th and early 20th century.

 

[Arilian]

There is no point to cut if off due balance reasons, it is almost worthless in the indrustial era, while it is very powerful at the beginning.

 

[Light Cleric]

There is no point to cut if off due balance reasons, it is almost worthless in the indrustial era, while it is very powerful at the beginning.

Even with the penalty for puppets, +2 culture per city in a wide domination empire is hardly "worthless".

 

[steveg700]

There is no point to cut if off due balance reasons, it is almost worthless in the indrustial era, while it is very powerful at the beginning.

Even with the penalty for puppets, +2 culture per city in a wide domination empire is hardly "worthless".

Mm. Yes and no. Due to the inflationary costs of sopols, the +2 gets devalued over time. And unlike the other outputs (gold, science, hammers), there are no buildings applying multipliers, until broadcast towers.

Of course, by going wide, you've really devalued culture as a currency.

 

[Smokeybear]

Of course, by going wide, you've really devalued culture as a currency.

Not if it's mostly puppet-wide, with only a handful of actual base cities. Still, even if you have +2 culture x 30 cities, that's still only 60 culture, and you should be pulling in over 1000 culture a turn anyway later in the game, so no, it's hardly 'huge'. Would be nice to have, but hardly imbalanced.

 

[Light Cleric]

Mm. Yes and no. Due to the inflationary costs of sopols, the +2 gets devalued over time. And unlike the other outputs (gold, science, hammers), there are no buildings applying multipliers, until broadcast towers.

Of course, by going wide, you've really devalued culture as a currency.

By "wide domination" I meant there would be a good many puppets. However, the +2 cpt combined Representation also softens the blow of annexing cities(which should be considered often, especially with AI capitals because they can be insane sometimes).

Not if it's mostly puppet-wide, with only a handful of actual base cities. Still, even if you have +2 culture x 30 cities, that's still only 60 culture, and you should be pulling in over 1000 culture a turn anyway later in the game, so no, it's hardly 'huge'. Would be nice to have, but hardly imbalanced.

Of course it's not huge, but it's hardly worthless. An extra 50+60 cpt in the later game can add up quite well when you consider that's about what you get a from an era-approriate CS ally. I'm not sure when you'd ever have 1000 cpt in a domination game(Old Peter built the CN Tower with like six billion cities and only got to 400 cpt ).

 

[Smokeybear]

Of course it's not huge, but it's hardly worthless. An extra 50+60 cpt in the later game can add up quite well when you consider that's about what you get a from an era-approriate CS ally. I'm not sure when you'd ever have 1000 cpt in a domination game(Old Peter built the CN Tower with like six billion cities and only got to 400 cpt ).

Well, I seldom play 'pure' domination games, where I ignore culture to throw everything into the military as fast as possible. Even when I plan on going domination, I still build all the culture wonders and buildings I can manage, in every city I can. You can never have enough social policies, no matter what VC you choose. And I've finished more than one wannabe-domination game by building the Utopia Project, because most of my cities were puppets, I got tired of wading through endless enemy civs trying to get all the capitals, and I had tons of culture, like 1200+ cpt due to the way I play. This is on large maps at epic or marathon speed, though. Obviously you're not going to get that kind of culture on a baby/fast map.

 

[Klasker]

You obviously havent played enough civ 4 !

a quote from the game:

"You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck...I have no time for such nonsense." -- Napoleon

 

[headcase]

I vaguely recall the UA is this way because the historical Napoleon in his life time thought steam power was ridiculous. I honestly don't think it is due to any sorts of balance reasons.

Right. Civ 4's steam power quote was Napoleon's skepticism about lighting a bonfire on the deck of a ship to make it go faster. The +2 culture would have little effect after this point anyway.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

There has to be a better way to have a UA without having it just stop at a certain point in the game.

 

[beestar]

Interesting discussion, but what are "sopols" and "illuminism"?

Er, actually, I realized the former is Social Policies, but I guess the latter is an Italian term that has a different translation in English? I'm honestly curious what the English equivalent is.

 

[compwiz1202]

I really like it because even without any culture buildings or per city policies, a puppet can start gaining hexes right after capture. Hmm...actually I've never checked, but does a revolting puppet gain any culture toward expansion? Does a revolting puppet provide anything other than friendly hexes?

 

[Browd]

Puppets in revolt produce no culture, so there should be no tile expansion. Revolting puppets only produce food.

 

[Smokeybear]

Revolting puppets only produce food.

That needs to go into a sig file, somewhere...

 

[Browd]

Sorry, I mis-typed that sentence. Should have been "Puppets only produce revolting food."