Frimlin's Conquests Trait Mod

[Frimlin]

I have now updated this mod to version 1.1.

Please read the first post of this thread to see the latest changes and additions.

The download link is now direct from my server, frimlin.com. Somehow I lost the ability to attach files to my original post.

Version 1.1 is also attached to this post, too.

Enjoy!

 

[Krayzeenbk]

It bothers nobody that Russia is industrious?

BTW many scientific discoveries were made simultaneously in several countries, and then claimed by the national propaganda machines. So arguments based on the number of scientific discoveries a country has made hold no weight at all. It is very easy to make most advances once the prerequisites have been achieved, it's just the next logical step. Several scientists do it and several countries write their own history about it, America included.

 

[Frimlin]

Exactly -- as I've said, it is the "winners" who write history. So you could argue about any trait given to a Civ.

Unless it was only based on what they were like as a Civ *now* then for the most part, we can't say we know what a Civ was good at. We weren't there. We don't know for sure.

I don't think I've once used any arguments about the number of scientific discoveries a country has -- are you referring to someone else?

As far as I am concerned, any real differences now between cultural groups on the Earth is due to starting locations. I believe certain nations, under certain leaders and their ilk/progeny, tended to behave in certain ways -- however I don't think any particular race actually has a particular trait.

PS: If you don't like a trait -- you can use your Editor to change it to what you want it to be. That's all I did with the mod, except I chose to share.

 

[Krayzeenbk]

Yes, I'm referring to several posters here, but not you.
I'd like to hear your rationale behind making Russia industrious, since most people who have ever visited it or studied its history would probably strongly disagree

That is very accurate about initial georgaphy and such affecting "traits", but these things become parts of culture that are then taught by example, and remain even after extensive changes to geography and social structure.

 

[Frimlin]

My rationale was simply to fill another unique trait coupling. However, obviously they're sharing it with Persia at the moment. (If memory serves me -- I've got to be quick, I'm at work!)

If I gave them something other than Industrious, it might be Scientific. I don't want them to be Expansionist -- they're like that in the Epic game if you like it that way!

 

[Krayzeenbk]

Nah, they're one of those civs the random generator never forced me to play. I'd say militaristic and expansionist are the traits for em, because most of Russian history involves conquering various neighbors - or at least fighting somebody, even if it has to be Russians themselves (I understand the Mongols have those traits too).

 

[Frimlin]

Tricky. I just realised if I did give them Scientific, in my mod at least, they'd have *double* Scientific trait -- ie, impossible.

Militaristic, Scientific? Why are they Scientific in the game, anyhow? Were they particularly scientific? My Russian history is very very sketchy. I know more about Slavs, Alans, Samatians...etc than I do about Russia. And even then I know only a little!

 

[Krayzeenbk]

No, they were only scientific when the whip was applied

 

[Frimlin]

You know, I'm really starting to think that you could just randomly hand these traits out, and it'd still probably look eerily valid.

This is why I still maintain Firaxis did a good job with it already. Heck, a large portion of the Civs in my mod (majority, even?) still have the original trait choices Firaxis made.

It'd be cool if the game could have an option to randomly assign traits, so you could be surprised. It'd probably only be Seafaring appearing in odd places that'd confuse people -- the other traits are seemingly up for grabs to almost anyone.

 

[Frimlin]

To anyone who's got the v1.1 version: how do you like the price of the Scouts and Explorers? I'm thinking I need to increase them to the nearest 5. At the moment they seem to take as long as Workers or Warriors, and I want them to be even more expensive considering they now have the same defence as a warrior.

Also, I'll have to make sure they don't have the AI "Defend" ability. Pretty sure they don't but I wouldn't want to see the AI deliberately using Scouts for defence.

Anyone else noticed anything in the non-trait changes that I could tweak to make a little better?

And does anyone think adding defence to Scouts and Explorers has really ruined the balance?

 

[alejandro-magno]

Russia should be scientific!
Science is not just inventing stuff. Think about Ivan Pavlov (conditioning), Lev Vigotsky (human Intelligence), several other phisicans and psichologists, Mijail Bajtin (lingüistics), etc. Russia had a great Science boost during the early days of the Russian Revolution. In comparison, american scientists have advanced in few fields: military technology, early electronics (Morse, etc.) and economics. Commercial & Militaristic, I´d say.

Ever noticed how Americans & Brits have made so few advances in social sciences compared with the french or germans?

 

[Frimlin]

Umm... Russia *is* Scientific in this mod.

Commercial and Militaristic *are* traits you could apply to America, I agree. However, I didn't choose them.

 

[alejandro-magno]

I meant it as a reply to those who think it should not be, Frimlin.
I just meant to give my opinion, as Traits are something quite easy to change.

 

[Frimlin]

OK, just checking. Your opinion is most welcome!

 

[aracuan]

hi!i agree in most preferences you have set.but can u help me in something or modify your mode?is there a way to make the STUPID ai of the pc to use shipd for offense?i m sick and tired seeing warships only for escorting duties...!

 

[Frimlin]

Which ships in particular? Or do you mean *all* non-transport ships? The AI *should* be using those offensively already.

One thing I have noticed myself, is that the AI seems a bit more likely to attack another ship with their offensive ship, rather than bombard the land or a city. But maybe that's just because I play on Monarch -- it's probably worse at Deity & Sid.

What level are you playing on?

Dromons, Frigates, Man-O-Wars, Privateers, Ironclads, Submarines, Cruisers, Destroyers, Battleships, Nuclear Submarines and AEGIS Cruisers are all marked as being "Naval Powers" and the AI *should* be using those to attack you.

 

[aracuan]

hi,thanks for the immediate response as well.i m playing in demigod,i have add a lot of extra naval units,but the result is the same(although i have ticked the icon naval power):naval units still escorting transport ones!!!arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
and thimk,that i have put tha ai agressive in most!STUPID ai,dones something fool:although i m in war i have seen enemy ships just passing by mine,wiythout attack!!!!!have u play civ 2?do you remember the ai there in naval units?much much better than here.unefortunately,a lot of thing in civ 2 worked much better from this....

 

[Krayzeenbk]

Russia shouldn't be Scientific just because it had some scientists. You forgot Tsiolkovsky anyways. In any case, it should be either expansionist or militaristic and some other trait, like lazy... give it seafaring for world maps so it has a completely useless trait.

 

[Tavenier]

Ok, here my humble opionion on two of the civs.
The Dutch should be commercial. East India Company, invention of company shares, Amsterdam was the first world trading centre, Rotterdam is the biggest harbor in the world, the only reason for exploration and discoveries was commerce (unlike British colonization or Iberian conversions) and so on.
Second trait should remain seafaring, for obvious reasons. Agriculture could be third.

And my traits for the USA.
Militaristic - NO! Only the last 70 years do they have a large army. In 1914 their army was smaller then that of Holland or Belgium.
Scientific - Not really. There were some very important inventions (like flight) but not enough to make it scientific above other traits.
Expansionistic - Could be, but not my choice either.
Agriculture - The US has one of the largest output of grain and other food, but only because of the enormous size of the country.
Seafaring - Nothing compared to England, Holland or Vikings in their days.
Religious - Absolutely. It plays a very important role. From the start of the country till present. A small example is how many times God is mentioned on movies, series, and so on. Our (Dutch) Prime Minister is from the Christian Democrat Party and he has never mentioned God in any of his speeches. I hear American presidents mention Him in every speech I see/hear.
Industrious - Absolutely. WW2 is the best example on how brilliant and uncontestedly superior American industry is. In the long run no country would have won of the US in WW2. Yamamote of Japan said that if Japan would go to war with the US it should be defeated in 6 month, otherwise the industry would be going and no one could stop the American production of tanks, planes, jeeps, ships, bombers and so on.
America should also get an Iron Works in all of their cities in wartime!

 

[Androrc]

Originally posted by Tavenier
Industrious - Absolutely. WW2 is the best example on how brilliant and uncontestedly superior American industry is. In the long run no country would have won of the US in WW2. Yamamote of Japan said that if Japan would go to war with the US it should be defeated in 6 month, otherwise the industry would be going and no one could stop the American production of tanks, planes, jeeps, ships, bombers and so on.
America should also get an Iron Works in all of their cities in wartime!

But you see, that's exactly why it should be militaristic. Because it's industries have nothing special, also, neither Russia(which had around the same industrial power that the USA had during the Cold War) nor England(which invented the modern production) have the industrious trait, so there's no reason for USA to get it. What is impressive is their wartime easiness to change from simple consumer products production to production of guns, tanks, airplanes, etc.