from immortal to deity...

[VanDutch]

I can win on immortal in my sleep but when it comes to deity...

1. terrible dirt/terrain to be able to grow enough to catch ai tech rate ( easier on immortal to catch up in tech )

2. all expansion spots that are decent are gone... by turn 25 in my deity games its very regular to see the ai put down their 3rd city

3. only the most polite neighbors spawn next to me ( looking at you rome and attila ) which are very good at spamming units and very hard to conquer early game.

these combined gives me a sub par cap, bad quality and quanity of satelite's ( rarely i roll a map with room for 4 good cities) and neighbors that i cant claim land from til im so far behind from early war that i cant catch up... when i do catch a peaceful neighbor (that would rather build the borobudor than defend his cap lol) and i start rolling i get many enemies and run out of money and happiness...

i do not play for diplo victories ever... science is only slightly more interesting... culture can be fun and challenging... but domination is my #1 for sure!!! on immortal i have like a 99% success rate. there is more room to expand to nice spots and the unit spam isnt as bad...

as far as social policies go... if the terrain is very rough for bows then ill take tradition and tech to arty's... if i have a close neighbor of course i take liberty and destroy them with comps... tried this new honor approach and i feel like its too slow and hard to maintain happiness...

with that said...

should i start producing settlers at pop 2 with trad?

go liberty and only get like 3 kinda junk cities?

i personally like getting the three city trad going with 2 food routes to my cap and using/abusing monarchy to get a power cap teching me to the late game... but i suffer early production and with very powerful early neighbors thats a recipe for failure to good expansions and or produce an army....

maybe in the near future i can get capturing software and a mic and show what im going through more in depth

 

[VanDutch]

this is my greece map...

monty to the south japan to the east and rome was up and around north where my hoplite was i killed his second settler with a warrior on top of it but still where do you go from there?

 

[VanDutch]

this is my poland start... looks very nice for the cap! but... had bad luck with two worker steals with a scout in babylon and a spear in amsterdamn... and no place for secondary cities that could grow unless i go ten tiles east of my cap...

 

[joncnunn]

I wouldn't have picked Greece for my first Deity game.

Poland though is a much better first choice.
Tradition looks better than Liberty for this start.
I'd plant my 3rd city due east on the coastal hill next to the Wine, which is only 6 hexes east of your capital. At some point after having cash rushed the last library for NC, I'd buy the fish which will easily let this city grow.

 

[consentient]

The Greece start has terrible dirt. I refuse to play such uninteresting and frustrating starts.

The Poland map is better but Krakow is badly positioned. On the hill next to the mountain would have been much better. There are a number of coastal spots to the East of the capital that are pretty good.

In general, the difference between Immortal and Deity is that the Deity AI will be more aggressive in expansion, depending on flavor, and with unit production.

A lot depends on your intended VC. Culture is pretty hard on Deity because some AIs can produce a lot of culture that you have to overcome. The rest are much the same except if you want to use conquest, expect tougher opposition earlier. Pikes soon after T50, etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[beetle]

I can win on immortal in my sleep but when it comes to deity...

This is interesting to me in that I was still struggling with Immortal when I started playing Deity. I have not looked back!

Can you describe in a little bit more detail your Immortal strategies that are no longer working for you at Deity? I think it is a little unusual to feel such stark differences between Immortal and Deity. OTOH, I did not use working stealing until I started playing at Deity. How many Deity games have you tried?

I think the Greek map is okay. Oda must have thought the dirt in your back yard was decent enough, and you only need three good expo spots. Hill on one-tile inland lake S to pick up closest citrus is one. Two coastal spots to W and NW will be okay. Settle on hills when you can.

...and no place for secondary cities that could grow unless i go ten tiles east of my cap

I agree that Krakow should have been on the coastal hill with mountain instead of the river. Hill on coast in middle of wine should be a fine expo spot, and is not far from cap. Inland on hill next to mountain to pick up incense for 3rd expo.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I get the impression that the extra settler is the biggest difference between Immortal and Deity

 

[consentient]

I get the impression that the extra settler is the biggest difference between Immortal and Deity

I disagree. I've experimented with these things and the Immortal AI just lacks a killer instinct. As you may recall, I wanted to create a new series with a difficulty level I called Demigod. In experimenting with this, I tried a number of things, including giving the Immortal AI extra settlers. They were no better at doing things, and the point at which I took the tech lead was only about 20 turns later.

 

[beetle]

I've experimented with these things and the Immortal AI just lacks a killer instinct.

Certainly the settler and extra units are the most obvious aspect -- but I think you are very much onto some undocumented aspect here. Does anyone really think that the Prince/King AI with extra settler and extra units would act like the Deity AIs? There is some passive aspect that the difficulty tables are not reflecting.

 

[Kriogen]

.... Does anyone really think that the Prince/King AI with extra settler and extra units would act like the Deity AIs? There is some passive aspect that the difficulty tables are not reflecting.

Salt. Give AI salt. Remove 1 desert mountain tile as AI will go stupid and waste hammers on Petra. Ask your self 'would I settle my capitol here'.

Play with strategic balance option and/or cook map so that AI gets a good start (plus remove 'noob traps') and it will be more alive.

Good land will help, a couple of extra starting units will not. Especialy not worker as thats good for player

Prince AI is as smart(or stupid) as Deity. But on Deity, any tile, even plain tundra/desert acts like salt for AI (because of bonus).

 

[VanDutch]

thank you for all the insights people... ive been trying for a couple months now to get the deity win maybe like 30 attempts that go pass turn 100... my immortal strat is...

1. 2 scouts
2. monument unless i get the culture ruin
3. shrine
4. worker ( most games i can get free workers but sometimes i will build one here if im having bad luck )
5. 2 settlers ( save those 4th city bonuses for late game if u need strategic's )

as for archers... use your first 400g to buy two and then build more whenever you have time... i like 3 groups of two out on barb quests for cs

i can finish the settlers around turn 45 or so which is right around the time i get landed elite and fertility rites

granary 95% of the time after settlers (time is ticking) and no monument if i get the ruin...

as for the shrine, even if i dont want a religion ill take fertility rites alot as it goes with my general strat... just think of it as spending 5-8 turns to get 10% growth for like 100 turns maybe more if cap gets big enough the ai will pass it with their missionarys cuz its too big to convert

get 2 satellite cities build granary's first and in the mean time get sailing and AH...

in the cap, after granary, i will build the 2 caravans and switch them to send food back to the cap... its basically getting the hanging gardens every game without the chance of failure... add that to your pantheon and all the food from tradition and your growing like a mad man... if u get a coastal start with a coastal expand it gets crazy...

the reason why i focus so much food in the cap is because of monarchy and the national college are both cap based which leads you with huge science and a powerful late game producton house... aswell as lots of gold and the ease to stay positive with happiness at the same time...

i end my immortal games with caps over 40 like 95% of the time and sometimes above 50... i hit the ren. era with like a 20 pop cap...

once i have a tech lead i will bulb through to a military tech and smash the world... lots of fun... can be done with any civ. ( once in awhile i will do the space race or the world leader thing... and culture victories can happen if you capture lots of great works and smash the cultural leaders )

for social policies... full trad... a couple into patronage... and full rationalism... ideologies can be whatever you want... there is happiness everywhere

if you start near someone detour to construction before philo and kill them with comps... ( much easier on immortal )

i feel like this strat is for deity as well just cant seem to not screw it up yet with my expansion and such... i always feel like i have to fight to claim land off the start and i fall behind rebuilding units to get through the endless spam...

i will look into getting capturing software and a mic and make an LP

 

[VanDutch]

i was feeling determined and i rolled this... lol

 

[joncnunn]

View attachment 396191

i was feeling determined and i rolled this... lol

Russia is not the best civ for new to Deity level.
I really recommend getting a couple wins under your belt with a God-tier civ on Deity before choosing random civs on it.

 

[VanDutch]

i could go babylon, korea, or poland... but i dont think russia is too bad... little extra production for the early game tradition setup... lots of gold from trading 16 horses lol... cosack's for mopping injured units later with arty's... i rerolled with cathy and got this





NC by turn 83, i got oracle in my northern city, my eastern city is kinda weak but i had no where to go really lol i could have gone south to tundra land or north west but i had told persia i wouldnt settle close to them again and it would have been very streched out on a small pangea... settled my prophet (ill take persia's mosques and monasteries ... education by 105... trad full by turn 77 i think?! (before oracle finished!) ... did very well with city state quests... stole 3 early workers... oh ya and me darius and the songhai are the 3 best friends anyone ever had! so far a perfect game i think?!

 

[BruinBound]

Things are not adding up to me in this thread. Based on everything you have said, you should definitely be able to beat deity. These last screenshots are proof of that, this is a very well played start from what I can see. Are you able to win science if you do not go for domination at artillery?

 

[VanDutch]

hopefully everything keeps going well!!! ive just had bad luck so far... and i guess i could go science victory just to get the achievement for winning deity... i am only 7% behind those spicy guys! (indonesia)... gonna do the midgame tomorrow after work! maybe i stay peaceful and tech... ill think about it... dont wanna get backstabbed by all these close neighbors... (would rather b the one on offense) public schools, labs, and hubble? or dynamite, schools, planes and combustion?

btw nice lps bruin!

 

[stormtrooper412]

Yeah that looks very good. You can win on Deity with 3 cities

 

[BruinBound]

Agreed. 3 cities should be fine. That 7% behind is nothing at all, just remember to save your scientists to bulb after research labs are up. Let us know how it goes! And thanks for the compliment

 

[consentient]

Sounds like you need to work on your Diplo.

My basic rules are:

- Peace - Never accept anyone's offers to DoW/denounce another. Trade with everyone. DoF only if you believe them (Not Dido, Ash, Monty, Attila, etc.). Build an army so they don't keep looking at you.

- War - Try to keep 1 or 2 DoFs going as long as possible, but after the 3rd capital, everyone is going to hate you. Instead, buy all the CS and laugh heartily and long.

 

[beetle]

DoF only if you believe them (Not Dido, Ash, Monty, Attila, etc.).

What is the harm of DoF with those liars? Absolutely don't trust the DoF to prevent a DoW. But I actually prefer DoFs with this treacherous lot:

1. Their inevitable backstabs cause them problems with the other AIs. In general, I am sure you would agree, you want as much tension between the AIs as possible.
2. RAs still come through >50% of the time. If you keep up your army, denouncements are much more likely than a DoW.
3. Sell lux/strats for lump sums -- if they DoW, you already have their gold! Opportunities to sell a single resource twice is much more limited with other AIs.

The real balancing act is not making DoFs with AIs that most of the other AIs hate. I am not so good at that -- as I am happy to have an RA with a warmonger AI. Prolly I need to cut that back...