From King to Emperor - ouch

[Archon_Wing]

@T247?

I've never seen the AI win a culture victory by then.... or at all really, lol.

 

[Dotsworthy]

When I play emperor I learned quite quickly to prioritise the following:

1. Do I need to get cities out before the AI? Or can I hold off a couple of extra turns?
2. Do I need to build units to defend myself? Or can I declare friends with everyone and instead build other things?
3. Do I need to catch up on Science and Culture? Or can I put myself into a position to snowball my science and culture later by building cities/improvements etc.

In the early game I also try and build things that don't take too long to build but have long term benefits. Once my capital can build a settler in 11 turns I go for it. If I can build something in ten turns I'm more inclined to do that then wait twenty turns for a district, and I'll only jump to a wonder if I think I can afford to and my other cities are in decent shape.

Perhaps it would help if you had the yield ribbon activated so you can see how your doing comparitively. While a t247 win is a bit of a miracle for the AI, it might have been preventable if you could see China's culture at a glance and realised he was running away with it.

 

[i_imperator]

First of all, after turn 200 you should easily have at least 10 cities, 15 or more is very easy to do. I've seen your maps several times in this thread. You. Do. Not. Build. Enough. Cities. No more goofing around - force yourself to build 10 cities before turn 100 in every game you play or restart. You've got bad habits and you need to hold yourself to strict schedules to break them. Once you build that many cities by force of habit, you'll learn the rhythm of the game and not have to hold to strict schedules. But for now, you've got to ditch whatever it is you're doing instead of building cities in the early game.

Waiting to build a District - understand what this means. It means waiting until maybe turn 60 or 70 instead of building them at turn 30. Not waiting until turn 200+. Break the bad habits. If you don't have two Campuses by turn 80, restart.

Maybe here's a different way of thinking about it. One thing that helped clean up my district timings (as in, not doing them too early but also not doing them too late) was trying to hit all the Eurekas and Inspirations for those districts. I don't do that anymore, but it might be another good schedule for you to follow to help you break your bad habits.

I have a hard time looking at your minimap and even telling which Civ you are playing because the player should own most of their own continent by turn 240.

I'm kind of curious actually. I'd love to know what you are actually doing from, say turn 20 to turn 100. You aren't building Districts. You aren't building cities. What are you building?

@Horizons This is really good advice by knightterran and I have an idea for you to try out. Settle 2 early cities (Your cap plus two others), build 3 Holy Sites, then 2 Campus then unlock the Government Plaza when the Campus are finished and build the ancestral hall. Try and get this done by turn 60/70, after that get your settlers out and get 10 cities by turn 100. This is a strategy that PotatoMcWhiskey used in his district discount videos, but lets not focus on getting the discounts. Lets focus on getting our core districts and 10 cities out first. It might be worth trying it on that Auzzy map (and by trying I mean restarting, can you provide the save?)

In terms of barb problems, early warriors help, Scout>Warrior can be a very useful opener. for the Above strategy try going Scout>Warrior>Builder>Settler>Settler>HolySite..etc. Make it a goal to find barb camps and clear them with the warriors. Early barb spears take three hits to kill. Barb Horses can be taken care of by an archer fortified in the city, don't worry about them pillaging, it can be repaired.

 

[ezzlar]

Early holy site is a sure way to cripple yourself if you are struggling.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I'd love to know what you are actually doing from, say turn 20 to turn 100

That's the real problem. A lot of this would be solved if OP would play like 10-15 turns at a time and ask for advice but instead every time they play like 100 turns or even an entire game of which there is really no discussion beyond a rant about how unlucky the map is because there was no intent in asking for feedback, just validation. It's the reason why I stopped posting any real advice because it's a waste of time. It has nothing to do with skill level. If people choose to make up their own conclusions beforehand and sabotage the results at t1 there is really nothing anyone can do.

I mean like I said, playing on higher difficulties is overrated. I open games on Deity and also wonder what I'm doing with my life.

 

[kb27787]

Yep, I have no choice but to go back to King.

Tried a game emphasizing military and not building districts early, as advised. (Pretty much had to anyway, got hemmed in by Russia in the BCs - hence my neighbours hating me for all time even though I didn't raze the cities I captured)

Take a look at this. Totally impossible to beat this, China is on the other end of the earth. I have no earthly idea what's going on here but it's pretty depressing.

That's the first time I've seen AI get so much tourism to crack 100 tourists; esp with Russia in the game China should not have that many great works... (but then again I don't play until t247 so who knows? maybe they got some lvl 3 rock bands)

I'm very sure it is beatable, esp with a powerhouse like Aussie (with him, don't declare... wait til someone declares on you if possible). Post the t1 save...
Even if you play peaceful I'm sure you can get to 3-digit science and culture long before t240+

 

[priya31]

Excellent thread..!!!

 

[Horizons]

Any tips for this game? Looks like a good start, until you see who your neighbour is just beneath you ... I don't know how to play this. I just get steamrollered.

This civ's strengths are useless in this situation but the weaknesses are evident - you can't build enough to stop the AI's spam.

lol ... I think my Civ6 days are over.

 

[Basajaun]

Any tips for this game? Looks like a good start, until you see who your neighbour is just beneath you ... I don't know how to play this. I just get steamrollered.

This civ's strengths are useless in this situation but the weaknesses are evident - you can't build enough to stop the AI's spam.

lol ... I think my Civ6 days are over.

Well I dont know how its going to end, but at least I managed to get back Buenos Aires for now, and Im poking at his horses with pointy sticks. Im not going to play this one through, because of the gamespeed, and no walls for city states (this kind of game being one of the reasons why I play with it ) but I will play it some more turns, see if I can push Gengis back or eliminate him.

Civ6Screen0019

• Basajaun
• Dec 8, 2019

Trying to stop ponyboy

Edit: Reached critical point at about t100, managed to get hattusa back, but now he is pumping out horsemen twice as fast as I can build spearmen/xbowmen. He offered several peace deals, the last one with spices, about 35 gpt, 200g and 30 diplo favor, but I refused to see where things went. Some turns later, he takes Hattusa again in 1 turn. I can stop his attack, but cutting through his lands is way too slow, and he can expand at the same time he keeps pumping units, so the only thing to do in this game is perhaps burn his army a bit to slow him down a bit, take one of those nice peace deals, and spam settlers and builders with faith while he takes the CS again and the lower part of the map. There seems to be another AI that I havent managed to meet yet, my scout was killed by Mongols. Theres plenty of room to the north to build up peacefully. Theres lots of room for improvement anyway, I forgot that I was in standard speed and the faith bought units would be much cheaper, delaying my development significantly. Would have probaly bought a settler or 2 several turns ago.

Civ6Screen0020

• Basajaun
• Dec 8, 2019

This is painful

 

[Horizons]

Thanks for confirming that. My thought was, it's impossible to protect the city states and just hope for the best by expanding north.

I gave up when I realized that Genghis could easily kill me if he wanted to. At that point the game feels too artificial.

And holy guacamole does the AI get crossbows early. Get crossbows asap or lose the game, simple as that.

 

[Basajaun]

Thanks for confirming that. My thought was, it's impossible to protect the city states and just hope for the best by expanding north.

I gave up when I realized that Genghis could easily kill me if he wanted to. At that point the game feels too artificial.

And holy guacamole does the AI get crossbows early. Get crossbows asap or lose the game, simple as that.

No problem at all. As mentioned, not the most efficient play. I almost exclusively play epic difficulty and about 30 turns in I forgot about it and I was pacing my game according to it. He got a good starting position too. I just finished a game with Shaka, where he was too my direct neighbor, but got quite a crappy starting location with lots of land, but only plains, barely any river settle spots. Plus, with the Zulu's Impis just after taking down a couple of Spanish cities (converted into corps) slicing his army was childsplay. Sure Impi Corps vs buffed Horsemen is still a win for the Impi, but I had crappy land too, and had a veeeery slow start, I finished my SV in T440, when I usually do 360-400 with my messing around with too many cities and more harbors than I need. Start bias RNG man. Although from my experience Gengis usually has very productive and fertile spawn bias. 9/10 where he appears in my games, he is usually the game bully and takes down full CIVs at a frightening rate.

In any case, I think the wise move is to retake both CS, keep a bit of a defensive stance around them, close to his borders, and take one of those nice peace deals. Then build up during the peace treaty, enough so he doesnt have such a military advantage, or perhaps just keep you military high enough to stop him, but low enough later so he tries again. But now you should be ready with some spare gold to surprise him wherever he appears.

I havent tried many games with Mali, Ive actually just done the one from start to end, but I find that you dont want to settle your first (and perhaps the 2nd, to be safe) in full desert. Grab 2-4 desert tiles, its enough food and faith to get the first pantheon and still have mad growth, but you wont be as crippled in production or gold as you would be in the middle of the desert. And having a 8pop capital so soon into the game is more of a handicap than a benefit, with no really decent workable tiles yet, and low on amenities. Id say go mad on desert once you can throw one or 2 trade routes into the city.

Also, you want to keep suzerain of Buenos Aires, especially that early, bonus resources giving amenities can give you some breathing time during war or for growth.

 

[MrRadar]

Any tips for this game? Looks like a good start, until you see who your neighbour is just beneath you ... I don't know how to play this. I just get steamrollered.

This civ's strengths are useless in this situation but the weaknesses are evident - you can't build enough to stop the AI's spam.

lol ... I think my Civ6 days are over.

I tried to go in as blind as I could, but it is not easy to avoid screenshots and close neihghbours' names, when they are not hidden by spoiler tags. Anyway, that did not change very much how I would've approached this, as Mali you might want not to go scouting about very much and stick your neck out too early. But the neighbour found me on t11 anyway.

Spoiler :

You know how the saying goes: if you can't beat them, befriend them

All I had to do was to send them a delegation on meeting (I did not even invite them to see my capital), not to rush and not to have any sort of cavalry, and send them a trade route. Diplo +3 for delegation, +2 for trade route, +7 for absence of cavalry finally outweighed negative first impression, decayed to -3 and another -3 for a close settling. I was preparing to rush improve and gift him incense, as he had jumbos himself, but did not need it. He turned to friendly and I signed a DoF immediately. Nothing very gamey, I believe.

So, I will spare myself an early war effort, when Mali is at the most vulnerable, I see a nice desert on the right, and I will be sending all my routes to Genghis for now, as those 2 CSs are now his territory. I can't do much about it now, but for now I kinda don't need to worry. We'll see after one or two DoF extensions.

But for now, I think I've minimized Mali's weaknesses and I'm intending to squeeze as much as I can from its strengths in the time I bought for myself, and I think I've bought as much as I wanted. And first Suguba will be completed in 4 turns in Niani.

 

[knighterrant81]

Thanks for confirming that. My thought was, it's impossible to protect the city states and just hope for the best by expanding north.

I gave up when I realized that Genghis could easily kill me if he wanted to. At that point the game feels too artificial.

And holy guacamole does the AI get crossbows early. Get crossbows asap or lose the game, simple as that.

I feel like Mali is a poor choice if you are struggling with game basics. Mali plays so differently than other Civs that the lessons you learn aren't generally applicable. Civs that focus on Religion also are probably ones you want to stay away from.

I'm not particularly afraid to have Genghis as a neighbor. It just means you have to build up military early (which is harder for Mali) or get him on your side.

I still feel like the biggest issue is just the attitude you're bringing to the game. If we're all honest, we've rolled (and quit) bad starts, or starts where we made too many mistakes. It is okay to restart. It is even okay to save scum, if it means you'll have fun and learn something for the future. Your goal should be to learn and improve. Don't get down on yourself if you can't handle Genghis Khan on your doorstep as Mali (yet). Conversely, though, that still means its not necessarily the maps' fault that you lost. The flipside of the "I can always improve" coin is you have to face your own mistakes instead of blaming outside forces.

You seem to have a lot of rules in your head and if these rules get broken, then the game "feels too artificial," "the early game is too difficult," or "I have to follow strict build priorities." Let's be honest about what Civ 6 is:

1. Difficulty in this game is generated by giving the AI bonuses at the start.
2. Resource and turn advantage are the primary way that you win this game.

1 and 2 together means that the early game will always be the most important phase, and those choices will make the most impact. That gets more and more true as you raise the difficulty setting. The AI is still dumb, and to win higher difficulties, it becomes necessary to exploit that. If Genghis Khan decides he's not going to attack you, then congratulations - you get to take advantage of the AI's mistakes. Until they radically change Civ so much that it is no longer Civ, that is how you play this game.

The crossbow thing I think Firaxis needs to actually take a look at. It definitely feels like the door on early game aggression slams shut way too fast the minute the AI gets crossbows, and they can get crossbows pretty early thanks to the AI starting bonuses.

 

[MrRadar]

@Horizons
Update at t100:
After one renewal of DoF with the Genghis I'am at +26 diplo relations with him. No negatives. Friendship and immunity from war with him will continue as long as I want and find it useful.

I've got all 3 early Great Merchants and even got the last available prophet:

Spoiler :

So I have 5 trade routes, taking advantage of Mali's strengths:

Spoiler :

I'm about to hit a golden Medieval and get another trade route:

Spoiler :

And, as you can see from the above screenshot, Kumbi Saleh (and probably Jenne as well) is about to get wrecked by a gradient dust storm. But so what? Mali will rebuild. Niani already withstood a flooding and an assault of obnoxious barbarians. I've lost 2 warriors, 1 slinger and 1 archer to barbs alone by this point. They came from N-NW and had Niani at 0 hp for a few turns. So what? Niani just kept working on Commercial Hub investments and a replacement archer and warrior have finally destroyed the invaders. This mini army will do for now, I'll grow it when it is necessary. Now the ground is almost prepared to finally buy some settlers every few turns and expand.

I'm uploading my saves every 20 turns or so, for the first 100 turns, if you want to have a look at them. This is not some serious attempt at an optimal play. I play for my pleasure, not for fastest turns, but I do not reload saves and I make mistakes and inefficiencies, deliberate or out of ignorance, and I live with them.

As @knighterrant81 said above, try to do something with your attitude, try to see the glass half-full instead of half-empty, or something. And spend some time to really read and take in the leader and civ info which is displayed while the game loads. I tend to forget to do that myself, but when I remember, that usually helps.

 

[Tuvok694]

After months and months of trying, today I have finally decided, NOT to play on level emperor again. It is still better to be bored on level king than to get depressed on emperor by failing all the time. It is just too hard.

 

[shaky]

After months and months of trying, today I have finally decided, NOT to play on level emperor again. It is still better to be bored on level king than to get depressed on emperor by failing all the time. It is just too hard.

Try playing with Nubia. Head for the Craftsmanship civic, pop in Agoge policy card, build a dozen Pitati archers, then you'll be fairly invincible. Go attacking and remember to pillage everything in sight.

 

[Stylianos]

@Tuvok694 if king level is a bit boring, try to play at emperor or immortal with this mod (AI free settler on deity only), that gives all the bonuses to the AI but not one more settler: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=906205258&searchtext=ai+settler
or this one (No AI Start Advantage), which cuts the extra units, tech boosts, etc from the AI: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1263169936&searchtext=ai+advantage

 

[Tuvok694]

...try to play at emperor or immortal with this mod (AI free settler on deity only), that gives all the bonuses to the AI but not one more settler: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=906205258&searchtext=ai+settler
or this one (No AI Start Advantage), which cuts the extra units, tech boosts, etc from the AI: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1263169936&searchtext=ai+advantage

Thank you, I use that mod now and it reduces the risk of getting forward settled by the AI in the beginning. Unfortunately one mod cannot transform me from dumb to skilled, and so I keep losing my games. But never mind, thank you for your friendly advice.

 

[Horizons]

. It is okay to restart. It is even okay to save scum, if it means you'll have fun and learn something for the future. Your goal should be to learn and improve

Very true. I was watching quill18 on Youtube, playing a Deity culture-win game as France and he did indeed reload after a misplay. I guess I am being too perfectionist. To be honest I think I always had more fun in previous versions of Civ playing on a difficulty that I could mostly win, and going from mostly winning to mostly losing is the most disheartening thing. (A 50/50 ratio would be ideal to keep interest and challenge.)

I was trying to maximize Mali's bonus by settling next to desert - bad idea. No production = early sneak attack from Ghengis. I feel like often the civ bonuses are just a distraction from optimal play, especially early game ones.

Those loooong production times are also a bit off-putting. (26 turns for a builder, ouch)

 

[MrRadar]

I was trying to maximize Mali's bonus by settling next to desert - bad idea.

On the contrary - good idea.

No production = early sneak attack from Ghengis. I feel like often the civ bonuses are just a distraction from optimal play, especially early game ones.

You refuse to use diplomacy on principle, out of conviction, or just why? Genghis is an early brick wall for many civs, not only Mali - and Mali especially. If you keep trying to hit this wall with your bare head, you’ll end up with a fractured skull for sure. Why insist on a forcible solution or ignore a peaceful option, when diplomacy just works and gives you a friendly neighbour to trade with?

With Mali you only build with city production what’s absolutely necessary - districts, then you try to buy everything else - buildings, units and such. And cities just run mostly projects.