From the Hills of Timbuktu [Deity Hemispheres]

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Feb 9, 2010
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Cantaloupe Island
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Your name is Mansa Musa, King of Kings, absolute ruler of the people of Mali. Sitting on your throne, you enjoy the breeze of fresh air as a slave behind you gently waves a leaf of palm tree.
A caravan arrived earlier today and the merchants before your eyes keep busy bowing and presenting you with numerous presents : boxes carved exquisitely and made from unknown woods, cloths of the richest silks, exotic fruits that still hold the smell of humid soils and tropical forests. You yawn lavishly to signify your contentment and your desire to retreat in solitude.

Timbuktu, "The Distant One", has attracted many of those merchants from time immemorial. For everybody knows that, in Timbuktu, favours are repaid in gold.
Over the years, this stream of activity has granted you with a diffuse knowledge of the outside world, names that have crossed the land and reached your ear, such as Gandhi the puny Indian, Pericles, wise advisor to the Greek tribes or Darius, the formidable Emperor of the Persians. Who knows what lies accross the great beyond ? Some speak of immeasurable swathes of sea and of worlds beyond.

The time is now 4000 BC and your palace sits at the centre of the Modern World, your city at its crossroads, or so does your astrologist tell you.
Lost in your thoughts, you wander on a balcony and indulge in visions of grandeur, start to marvel at the unique fate of your people and the possibilities, oh, the possibilities... All around you, as far as the eye can see, the land is yours and people obey to your command. Tomorrow, you will conquer the horizon. The next day, well, ancient artifacts point to the stars
From the hills of Timbuktu, late in the afternoon, the Belt of Orion starts to appear.

You draft some plans for the future but, first, where should you establish the city ?

Spoiler :
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Game settings :
Spoiler :
Deity, Standard size, Normal speed
Hemispheres, Massive continents, Tiny islands
Tropical climate, Low Sea level

Handpicked AIs :
Gandhi, Pericles, Darius (our team)
Elizabeth Tudor, Huayna Capac, Peter the Great, Hannibal Barca (their team)


I did a playability check last week. Word of advice :
Spoiler :
It is playable :banana:
Also :
Spoiler :
These settings can be difficult to handle in the early stage. They can also lead to completely ridiculous things.
The AIs will be slowed somewhat by the amounts of land, especially in Techs and Wonders. They will, however, probably expand fast. Here, the jungle is likely to act as a nerf to Deity AIs.
The first plan is survival. Barbs start to enter territories from T35. This is not a map you should attempt to fogbust from T0. You probably need units other than warriors by or before turn 50.
The second plan is grand strategy. If you intend to (try to) cut open this map, it is a good idea to set up a grand plan early on (not from T0, though). This means : settling patterns vs tech targets vs maintenance. How far do you want to crash your economy ? How do you intend to rival your neighbours ?
Fortunately, the double gold gives some leeway in that last aspect (what were the odds ?)
 

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Monologues...worrying trend! Never fear.

Spoiler T57 :


This map is ripe for worker micro.

T33: Agriculture, AH, BW.

Warriors to Size 3, 2nd worker (!), to Size 4, Settler.
1st worker: Corn, Road, Mine, Road, Cow, Road --> Chop!
2nd worker: Mine, Chop!

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T51 --> Mysticism ---> Priesthood --> Writing + Oracle! (2000BC)

Using road on Horse as a worker swing turn between Sheep and Wheat

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T57: Who needs Stonehenge, I'm spiritual.
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Question :
Spoiler :
What's the big deal about CoL ? I can see the appeal about the Oracle.
Civil Service beeline ?

Spoiler :

Spiritual is all about trait gaining. Early Code of Laws opens many nice trait gains.

1. You can pop borders without penalty via Caste System (Creative)
2. You can run 2 scientists in a non-capital food city without spending 90 hammers on a library (Creative/Philosophical)
3. You get happiness bonus from religion (Charismatic)
 
Looks like fun! Will try it out when I have a moment.

I guess SIP is hard to beat with PH hill and everything. I dont dear see any spoilers yet so HF with your games and monologues :)
 
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Spoiler :
A point of contention, looking back at this log, concerns improving the 2nd gold mine vs pasturing the cows. The worker moves from the first gold mine on 3080 BC, so it could very well improve 1x mine, 1x pasture, 1x mine, which would justify the tech path. Pasture before 2nd mine wastes 1 more worker turn in movement but also speeds up the 2nd worker by a turn. It's likely the 2nd mine is the way to go but this is a thing to consider.

Spoiler :

Yeah I think the weird spot with double gold is that if you commit to working the 2nd gold off 1 food resource, the growth is super slow to size 4. I think the timing on size 3 to get a 2nd worker (considering the number of worker turns needed is an acceptable compromise. Effectively, I'm waiting until the pasture is up to start growing again to size 4, and looking to take gains on the 6 tile cow.

From my screenshot on T33, I have just finished BW, and am 11 worker turns ahead of you on T27. Roughly speaking then, I've lost a turn of tech in favor of 4 worker turns and a bit of production...judging by my maintenance cost. hard to judge this one.




Spoiler :
The one issue with this plan is the inability to share a gold tile from Timbuktu. As it happens, Timbuktu is rather food poor (remember our troubles growing to size 4 ?). Long-term, we want cities that can relieve the pressure from the golds and allow our capital to grow easier. There could be such a city like 3N of Timbuktu, grabbing a corn. This is a saving grace. Still, the more cities can share those food negative tiles, the better we can plan our growth.

Spoiler :


I had the same thought with the corn, until I saw.....stuff.... in the fog.

 
Spoiler T88 :


T61: Running a scientist in Djenne while building granary; doing more caste system nonsense to steal corn city away from Darius. The land is good, and there are elephants...I decide to pick up HBR to 1) hedge on fighting a war over Bantu and 2) open the option for an elepult attack while I wait for these dudes to tech Alphabet/Mathematics/Iron Working.

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T69: Had a weird moment where 2 barbarian archers tried to kill my chariot...opening the option to take Bantu with chariots before Darius even gets there. This makes my plan to horse archer rush Darius a lot less valuable. Maybe the Construction attack is still an option?

Walata settled for the express purpose of working cottages for Timbuktu, and hogging those food resources until Iron Working becomes available. Workers sneaking in Persian territory to get those trade routes.

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T82: The other nice thing about getting early COL is that you can save gold waiting for an Academy, rather than spending commerce to get to Aesthetics. The timing of the Academy (late at 825BC) becomes a little less critical, since it's not costly to keep tech at 0 while waiting for the Academy.

Here I do a COL --> Alphabet trade, with 273 gold left for post Mathematics/Iron Working tech shenanigans. At 7 cities, with 2 more settlers settling in the next 2 turns.

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T88: Expansion complete at 10 cities. Total count of resources acquired explicitly via caste system artists: 8.

Is there still time to run over the map with elephants?

I am losing money at 0 tech....but a few turns of growth and research beakers could get me to Construction still fairly fast..... tech screen suggests I may have a decent amount of time vs Darius before Feudalism comes in. Pericles has elephants of his own.

There will be at least 7 cities ready to build elephants/catapults by the time I reach Construction in ~10-12 turns. What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

Machinery/Engineer bulb options are still open w/no fishing, and Mansa Musa does have the Mint....
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Spoiler T121 :



T108:

Got to Construction at 400 BC, and did a double whip from the furthest cities, leading to this army on Darius' border at 175 BC.

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Power becomes a non-obstacle with 10 cities:

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T121: Running through the empire - Susa, Persepolis, Ecbatana, (2nd army @ Gordium), Meet at Pasagardae, end at Tarsus.

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Capitulation - - now holding 16 cities, + 4 under vassalage.

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Very cursed AI tech pace: Alphabet at 825 BC + no Feudalism. They did get Civil Service though. Not sure if the Feudalism miss was specifically due to the whole continent sharing the same religion, or my full self-teching of Feudalism thwarted them off...

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Stats:
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Game is at GG. 20 city alliance + 20 remaining units + no Longbows to hold me off.
 
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Looks like a gorgeous piece of map.
I've seen spoilers and the dream is on.

@CarpoolKaraoke kickoff really looks optimal (in terms of beeline) and I can't think of a better deal.
I'm holding my horse for now :cooool:

About early beelines
Spoiler :
Double gold means anything cheaper than 1k:science: can be gotten in a breeze. What's appealing?

Metal Casting looks poor

HBR is cheap but we'll be starving for production early game and I can't see any incentive to rush attack anyone. Is there?

CS beeline leads to a microscopic empire with huge commerce output. Does not look desirable in this context, does it?

:bounce:


Edit I played and got stolen
Spoiler :
oracle T46 :sad:
 
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@bic thoughts
Spoiler :
Usually I like to play this kind of continental map as a "get full control of the continent then win" kind hence I would not care about the other continent and focus on conquest until job's done [pimp] This one has lots of tiles though :hmm:
You arguments for Astro make sense still! And with so many cities it should be possible to do several things at the same time.

I am still trying to improve my opener (balance military / expansion / research properly)
What I like is farming the cow to avoid early stagnation of Timbuktu.
Archery > BW > AH or something like that...
 
Yeah, Worker Size 3 and is good because there is so much forest to be chopped.
 
Interesting map and settings. I also really like the idea of early caste system for border pops. So, I'll give this map a try. But I have some map knowledge and use reloads for some micro. My win condition is the fastest spaceship victory.
Spoiler T51 :
Agri -> AH -> BW. Worker at size 3 because this way we can grow 3->4 in fewer turns. Skirmishers are good, but I don't think we need archery here because there are already 5 warriors built naturally. So we can just build a couple more and fogbust everything.
Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood -> Writing -> CoL.
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Spoiler T97 :
Fishing -> Pottery -> loong time at 0% -> Currency.
Confucianism is the only religion on our continent, so I built SPI temple, put priest and got Confu Shrine T82. Oracle's GPP really helps here.
T97 Hanging Gardens on 11 cities, 36 pop.
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Spoiler Thoughts :

I don't like SPI generally, because of lacking of early advantages, but here SPI caste system is strong and fun at the same time. It is unusual not to have whip button on demand at this stage of the game, so need to plan ahead, when you need to push borders and when you need to whip.
I don't think an early war is good with so much good land. So I'm aiming for later cuirs push.
I haven't decided yet, wgich root is better after Liberalism - Astro or SoL first?. Is it worth it to spend 2 GS for Astro? It depends on Astro timings - if we capture most of the continent, then merc + rep + SoL is probably better.
I completely forgot about great people production after great priest. I think, bulb philo is crucial here if I'm even start to think on astro. Maybe, Shwedaggon paya is an alternative?
There is no forest left for oxford. I should've chopped more forest in third-forth cities and keep forest in capital instead.

I'll replay this map and get GS earlier at the cost of one city. And try to fix other mistakes as well.
 
I haven't come around to playing it but I think Astro comes before Liberalism. (All best case scenario)
I also think the Pyramids are boom boom boom boom >>>> better than the Oracle on this map, if you have to choose a wonder.
Spoiler :
I think, Lib after Astro will delay attack date too much. But I probably underestimate early Astro benefits?
Well, I joined this game with Oracle -> Caste in mind, so my wonder is chosen already. Also, there is one problem with Pyramids - stone is too far away. It will be my 5th or 6th city.

Anyway, it would be really interesting to see alternative approaches

I'm not quite sure about your T51, we've got 2 6yield tiles... Surely we can have more than 2 cities by that time
Yes, it could be 2 settlers instead of Oracle, so, maybe, an alternative cost of Oracle is too big. Anyway, I have 3 workers, so I don't think it's that slow.
"loong time at 0% -> Currency."
I'm pretty sure you can fix that with better sequencing of workers and settlers (workers before settlers).
That's true, this part should be improved.
 
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