[FULL] Putmalk's Ancient World Discussion Thread

[Putmalk]

Definitely looks awesome. I'm excited by the version 7 release notes as they are shaping up. I'm a huge fan of Civ in the Ancient, Classical, and Medieval Eras so this is really my mod to watch. Thanks for everyone's hard work!

- Marty Lund

Glad I can satisfy.

I implemented most of the icons into the game. They look gorgeous. Once I've finished nailing the bugs and whatnot I'll post the updated tech tree with all the updated icons and unit changes listed.

Attached is the Mercenary civilopedia. Think of it as my formal argument to keep the Mercenary name. Let me know what you guys think. If it satisfies you, I'll keep Mercenary, if not, I'll consider Levy (I actually like that) or something else.

Hopefully the AI does not build many Mercenaries. They have a low flavor and should only be built when there are no other units available. If they have other available units, they'll build those first. We'll have to see.

 

[Sneaks]

That screenshot shows a typo error.

There is no such thing as a quadquereme. It is probably a typo of quadrireme or quinquereme

 

[Sneaks]

This is a low res JPG of the tech and building icons I made so far.

Spoiler :

A few of them were originally made for our Ancient Mediterranean Civs - Greek Epic, so they not fully fit your call for help. Some are suggested for replacing modern looking Civ5's icons (like Harbour, Sailing), some are new, but typical ancient buildings - feel free to use them if you want to add or change buildings. But others are especially made for your Mod, like Copper or Ballistics for example.
Please tell me, if its o.k. - then I'll send the DDS to you.



Edit: so here are 8 units-icons as well now.

Spoiler :

left side:
- Siege Ship(?)
- Trading/Exploring Ship
- Bireme*
- Quinquereme/Pentaere or watever you want to name it

right side:
- Clibanarii
- Mercenary
- Onager(?)
- Helepolis

*I would suggest naming the first ship Bireme instead of Trieme. Upgrades to Trieme, then Quinquereme. Just an idea, corresponding with my former idea about longer lasting first age(s).

I like most of those icons a great deal. The quality seems to jump around a bit depending on whether the initial image was a graphic or photo or painting, but they all look pretty good.

Personally, I think it is usually best practice to try to follow some of the vanilla icon practices for buildings: Never show any people if possible.

 

[Putmalk]

That screenshot shows a typo error.

There is no such thing as a quadquereme. It is probably a typo of quadrireme or quinquereme

I know. I realized that yesterday. >.<

There is a change in the patch notes regarding this.

 

[apocalypse105]

Question Can I play a game withouth using the scenario?

I mean setting up a game for example pangea with a certain amount of players?

 

[mlund]

Question Can I play a game withouth using the scenario?

I mean setting up a game for example pangea with a certain amount of players?

I played 7 players, 7 city states on a random Small Continents map with this mod last night. Everything worked just fine or me.

- Marty Lund

 

[Putmalk]

Yes, this mod is fully playable without the Mesopotamia scenario (even though that was the original intent of the mod I decided against it and started with the new, random-map model. It's why I released five original random maps with the Variety Pack).

 

[mlund]

Attached is the Mercenary civilopedia. Think of it as my formal argument to keep the Mercenary name. Let me know what you guys think. If it satisfies you, I'll keep Mercenary, if not, I'll consider Levy (I actually like that) or something else.

The civilopedia entry is nicely done. The only real problem is the simulation context. In the bulk of the Classical Era mercenaries were just drawn from minor civilizations or city-states that had a technical specialty and weren't otherwise engaged in their own wars. The Numidian's light cavalry, Cretean's bowmen, and slingers of the Balearic islands are cited specifically in the history of the Roman Republic and the Carthagians - for example.

These seem much more like when you pay a Militaristic City State a hefty gift and they send you back slingers, bowmen, or horsemen.

The late classical era mercenaries were more of the traditional sort - mixed companies of "savages" valued for their ferocity and loyal until your money ran out - or you got so soft they could just take your lands. This was the case with the Goths at the end of the Roman Empire, for example.

The levy is definitely a better fit for a unit your own civilization puts on the field without the benefit of being able to supply a professional army like strategic-resource dependent units might represent. The traditional Roman levy also looks very similar to your illustration - sword, javelins / spear, and a hefty rounded shield.

True mercenaries seem like a concept that would need a more unique mechanic to do it justice - extra upkeep costs, changing sides rather than disbanding if you don't pay, etc.

- Marty Lund

 

[Numitor]

The quality seems to jump around a bit depending on whether the initial image was a graphic or photo or painting,

The difference is basicly becouse I had to learn during the progress. One of the first icons was the nature shrine thing, I made that with our Amazones from AMC-Greek Epic Pack - but we never used. Now I leveled up , and making icons is much more easy to me and they do look a bit different. (btw, I strongly doubt you can tell of what kind the initial images of every icon were. )

of the vanilla icon practices for buildings: Never show any people if possible.

Hm, I see your desire - and I was trying to do that "close to vanilla style" allready. If you look close again, you may notice, they broke their own "never show people if possible" practice in vanilla Civ5: look at Library or Stock Market for example (large people) or on Stone Works and Seaport (small people).


@Putmalk
Your pedia texts goes very well. Go with Merc is fine - if you ask me, I would prefer it over Levi (which is nice as well). One little thing: the text tells about "middle game" - dont you think, naming the era there would fit better? (I am more a roleplaying armchair ceasar and it heckles a bit, if a game like Civ is telling me "I am a game".)

 

[Mavs]

I've started a game as both Carthage and Rome, the first using a random map, and the second using your Mediterranean map.

I was able to play for quite a while, but at a certain point, I get a consistent freeze/CTD (I have to ctr-alt-del to get out of it). =/


The files in the first post...those are the actual mod files, if I remember correctly. So I have/had to create a folder for the mod itself first...right?

I just want to make sure I did everything correctly and that an error on my part during the installation isn't the cause of my troubles.

 

[Putmalk]

I've started a game as both Carthage and Rome, the first using a random map, and the second using your Mediterranean map.

I was able to play for quite a while, but at a certain point, I get a consistent freeze/CTD (I have to ctr-alt-del to get out of it). =/


The files in the first post...those are the actual mod files, if I remember correctly. So I have/had to create a folder for the mod itself first...right?

I just want to make sure I did everything correctly and that an error on my part during the installation isn't the cause of my troubles.

The game should create a folder when you click "Install Mods". You do not have to manually create it.

Could you describe to me the circumstances behind the crashes? Is it when a specific unit or building is being built? Or is it random?

One little thing: the text tells about "middle game" - dont you think, naming the era there would fit better? (I am more a roleplaying armchair ceasar and it heckles a bit, if a game like Civ is telling me "I am a game".)

You're right on this one. I pretty much was using the warrior pedia as a baseline, which is which I changed "early game" to "mid game".

But I also am a bit of a "roleplayer" sometimes. It's why I changed "They believe you are trying to win the game the same way they are!" to "They believe your interests conflict!". Same thing, really, but much more believable and immersive.

 

[Mavs]

The game should create a folder when you click "Install Mods". You do not have to manually create it.

Could you describe to me the circumstances behind the crashes? Is it when a specific unit or building is being built? Or is it random?

Ahhhh...so could it be that I'm corrupting it by trying to do it myself? =/

It's pretty random. All of a sudden, at some point, I hit end turn and it just stops, practically freezes, and I have to ctr-alt-del to be able to get to the "Civ V has stopped working bla bla bla..." message box.
And when I reload and try to keep playing, the same thing happens.

The crash has happened a little bit into the game...I had 4-5 cities each time.


3 straight games now. It happened with the Greeks too. Lame!

I'm going to try to reinstall without creating my own folder. See if that helps...

 

[Putmalk]

Attached is the full tech tree, version 7. All of the new icons are on display here. Huge thanks to Numitor for the latest batch of icons. The mod really looks profession now.

Also on display, the new units, and minor changes to placements on the tree (all changes have already been documented on the patch notes).

 

[CivOasis]

I really must try this mod again, I remember playing the initial release (and considering it one of the best mods available, too).

 

[Putmalk]

I really must try this mod again, I remember playing the initial release (and considering it one of the best mods available, too).

Nothing would make me happier.

I'm about to go into AI Diplomacy. Here are some of my goals:

• AI leaders aren't as jumpy to call you a warmonger, but once they do call you on, it doesn't take much longer for them to declare you a threat to the world. Actually, this is already in the game, it was added back in V5 I believe.
• Because communication throughout the world is much slower in ancient times, global modifiers will be less impactful on a leader's views. However, personal modifiers will be more powerful. For example, a leader will pretty much hate you forever if you break a promise to move your military from their borders.
• Leaders are more protected of their city-states, and if destroy one they had an alliance with, they'll be more inclined to hate you for a long time.
• More disparity between then-and-now diplomacy weights. For example, if you attacked a protected city-state now, they'll hate you a lot, but as time goes on the incident will be pretty much forgotten.
• DOF's and denouncements are more powerful, pretty much dictating how relationships will go.
• Liberating a capital will ensure allies forever.
• Make the target-is-distant modifier larger. Essentially, AI's will see distant targets as not suitable targets for war declaration (which will hopefully remove meaningless wars).
• Adjust the player's threat so that the AI views human armies more dangerous than AI armies. This should make the AI treat the human with more respect, and hopefully they'll send more troops to attack.

These are just some ideas. Playing around with the AI is finicky and this requires a lot of math to get right. In addition, a small change can absolutely break the AI and make them completely noncompetitive.

Any thoughts on these changes? Do you think they're unnecessary or I should start on them?

 

[PAVLOS_GR300]

mediterenian greek epic just released some new civs.do you plan to add them too?

 

[Putmalk]

mediterenian greek epic just released some new civs.do you plan to add them too?

At best the Minoans.

Athenians/Spartans for a scenario only (even then I'd probably just edit my existing civs instead of adding new ones. Adding new civs takes time ).

Besides, I want to start branching out into other cultures (I wanted to do the Harappans but they have no leader!).

 

[Putmalk]

Attached is the updated Levy pedia. Just so you know I changed it.

Also, I remember some people pointing out the Science victory popups at turn 10.

Just remember to set Science/Diplo victory off when playing a game. This should ensure that the game plays smoothly.

Um, also I posted about crashes when loading games? This seems to happen when you're trying to load one of the Variety Pack maps. Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I really need to know this one...

New policy updates (maybe more to come ?)

• Bribery: Now grants +1 Happiness per luxury, but no longer adds a decay to rival civilizations
• Trade Finisher: Now grants a decay to rival civilizations, 20%
• Sea Trade: Increases naval movement speed by +1

I also have to say...I am really liking this Copper change. I mean, I was skeptical at first, as so many units rely on it. But then I realized, for civilizations who don't have access to Copper, they can always trade for it! So, this opens up more options for trading. Do I trade my luxury for gold, or for that Copper/Iron I so desperately need? This is a good strategy decision in my opinion and I am enjoying it. I hope you guys will enjoy it as well.

Can't give a release date for Version 7, as I still have tons of work to do on it. But I can't wait for release.

 

[Mavs]

Looks great!!


So...science victory off, huh? Maybe that's causing some of my instability...

 

[PAVLOS_GR300]

why not adding the spartans instead of minoans they are far more interesting