Functional Barbarians

[alpha wolf 64]

I've been extremely disappointed in the limited functionality of barbarians. I was wondering how people would like to see barbarians used, besides as training fodder for new units.

I'd like many more types of barbarians, at least 2 per ERA. defeated barbarians would become slave workers. I've tried to mod this with no luck.

I'd like 1 ship per era. Victorious barbarian ships would capture teir victim and turn it into another barbarian ship.

Barbarian camps that exist x number of turns would become a limited city. It could not build improvements, nor have a border, but would pump out units depending on its growth. The larger the barbarian city grows, the more and faster it pumps out units. This way you could eliminate the mass uprisings which are really too weak to do any damage except to a newly founded/under garrisoned town. The real civs could use either military or culture to assimilate the barbarian town.

Barbarians should not disappear when they loot a city.

What other feasible ideas can we come up with for barbarians?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Getting workers out of defeated enemy units will apparently become possible in C3C - it's said to feature in the Mesoamerican Conquest*.

I don't really like the idea of Barbarian camps turning into cities like that. Sounds too much like giving the civs extra free cities.

I very much like the idea of the Barbarians evolving, so to speak. But not necessarily per era; there's no modern unit that would make sense for barbarians, for instance. Perhaps the present Warrior->Horseman progression could be extended to Knight and finally Guerilla.

* BTW, why's it called "Mesoamerican" when much of South America, including all of Peru, is on the map?

 

[Ian Beale]

Nah i don't like the ideas of barbarians having cities etc... I do like the idea of them becoming terrorists though causing damage to your civ in attacks. Maybe they could use scuds etc... or a civ could sell weapons to barbarians to help them fight an enemy?

 

[Mad Hab]

I agree that barbarians in Civ III are less fun than it used to be in Civs I and II. But one problem is the so-called "Settler Diarrhea Strategy " (used by all AI civs in the game, whether they are expansionist or not), that reduces inexplored terrain too fast in the game...

Cheers,

Mad Hab

 

[Xen]

I agree, wiping out barbarians by the middle ages is no fun, I would like to have them in the game well into the modern era (to represent minor rogue states)

and its called mesoamerica because it seems that everything between the south western US, and peru will be represented.... or thats how it looks to me at least....

 

[G-Force Junkie]

Your territory expanding over barbarian tribes shouldn't disperse them. The Native Americans remained within US territory, even though it was the Native American's land first. The barbarians also shouldn't be able to build horsemen if they aren't on a horse resource. Later game barbarian tribes could be transformed into terrorist cells and a country could provide resources for the cells, and civs that are "caught" supplying the terrorists could be declared war upon by civs that have a tech for anti-terrorism.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I personally feel that a barbarian encampment, left long enough, should become a full-blown city, and possibly even a new civ-though a very Minor Civ (i.e.: late starter, slower population/culture growth and a major focus on unit, rather than improvement production). In time, such a city should be able to exand to 2, 3 or even more cities-especially if they are able to conquer one of yours!! In fact, once they have cities of their own, barbarian units should be able to conquer OR loot a city they attack!!! Anyway, that's my $0.02c worth.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Furius]

I remember in my second ever game of Civ II these annoying Barbarians invaded all my cities. I'm not sure why they can't do that any more.
Also barbarians should have their own special unit which does... special barbarian stuff.

 

[nini1972]

Originally posted by CadetEmperor
Later game barbarian tribes could be transformed into terrorist cells and a country could provide resources for the cells, and civs that are "caught" supplying the terrorists could be declared war upon by civs that have a tech for anti-terrorism.

Great idea!

 

[alpha wolf 64]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
I don't really like the idea of Barbarian camps turning into cities like that. Sounds too much like giving the civs extra free cities.

I very much like the idea of the Barbarians evolving, so to speak. But not necessarily per era; there's no modern unit that would make sense for barbarians, for instance. Perhaps the present Warrior->Horseman progression could be extended to Knight and finally Guerilla.

If the barbarians were instructed to keep 3 strong defenders in the city at all times, then it would not be free, but a hard won trophy. Plus they could be given the ability to auto create a unit every turn after they have been attacked, so you'd have to make sure the inital assault goes well or you could be in for a prolonged siege.

I would give the barbarians the following units:
barbarian warrior - horseman
mercenary crossbowman - rogue knight
rebel - horse bandit
guerilla - terrorist

 

[Furius]

Their ship units ought to upgrade too, Gallry -> Caravel -> Privateer.
The thing is, it dosen't matter much whether the barbarians attack with a horseman ot a warrior, but if they had Guerillas by 1000BC I think I'd be sunk. On the other hand, of they only got Knights in 1975AD that would be FAR too late (Even for me). When would one get them to upgrade?

 

[Pembroke]

Originally posted by alpha wolf 64
Plus they could be given the ability to auto create a unit every turn after they have been attacked, so you'd have to make sure the inital assault goes well or you could be in for a prolonged siege.

Now that's an idea!

Barbarians can capture cities and a captured city thereafter pumps out one barbarian unit every turn. As to giving barbarians more modern units: how about using the rule that barbarians have access to the best defender, the best attacker, and the best attack naval unit that at least two real civs can build? That way they would keep pace with the general level of technology. The barbarians could also build them without access to resources (they are assumed to raid them from other civs )

Maybe this way you could even end up with an entire barbarian continent if a weak civ is completely conquered by barbarians.

Then you better watch out in the late game when two real civs have reached the nuclear tech level... Talk about terrorist nations!

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I don't think I'd like the Barbarians that powerful, Pembroke, but I do think there should be a simple additional section in the editor that, in addition to choosing the 3 initial Barbarian units, allows you to choose 3 more per era. This could be turned off (selecting none), or you could make the units as weak or powerful as you like.

I would definitely like to see this upgrade.

Also, and for the longest time everyone was crying for this, PLEASE bring back freedom fighters when one of your big cities is taken over. Why should there just be a bunch of "resistors" in the city. Several of them should become Freedom Fighters and resist you.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

since units can be specified as barbarian, you could use it to select which units the barbarians can produce. I think they should be limited to foot and horse units. I cant see them pumping out MAs or MIs.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Can you edit how many units a barbarian can get, or are they limited to a basic unit, an advanced unit, and a ship?

If you can't change it, you should be able to. You should also be able to specify how many civs need that tech before a Barb gets it.

Right now, Barbs only worry me when they have Horses, and I got them not too long ago, and when their Galley is near my Galley. No other times.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

thats the only choices for now Louis. thats why they are no fun. once you get swordsman, barbarians are no threat.

 

[Bobisback]

I agree with alpha wolf 64 with everything

 

[Mercade]

Originally posted by Mad Hab
I agree that barbarians in Civ III are less fun than it used to be in Civs I and II. But one problem is the so-called "Settler Diarrhea Strategy " (used by all AI civs in the game, whether they are expansionist or not), that reduces inexplored terrain too fast in the game...

Cheers,

Mad Hab

Agreed. Perhaps this is something that could be addressed in the AI in the new release as well. Now all land is used up relatively quickly.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

i increased the cost of settlers in both gold and number of citizens. mountain, desert and jungle tiles can not have cities on them. this has slowed it down some but the ai seems hard coded to immediately produce a settler as its first unit.

 

[Brohz]

I think that in the later ages (from the mid industrial) the barbarians should appear not only in camps, but appear suddenly in some far areas of the empire as guerrillas and making sneak attacks.

Other way could be that barbarians emerge in difficult terrain (mountains, jungle, etc) or near a resource, taking over the area and defending it. This would represent the real gerrillas, that take over a easy defendable territory (even inside countries, like what happens in Colombia whith the FARC).