Fundamentalism?

[Maximus I]

I just want to know peoples opinions on this. Do the pros of fundamentalism (huge income, no unhappiness) outweigh the cons (terrible science rate)? I used to think so and would go for it ASAP. Then I would just crank out tons of units and overwhelm other civs with brute (albeit primitive) force. Lately, however, I've been finding myself getting fundamentalism too early and I've been getting way too far behind in science for my military to maks that much of a difference.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Welcome to CFC.

There was some recent discussion about Fundamentalism in the Strategy & Tips forum that may help, that thread is here.

 

[Old n Slow]

Is fundy better than democracy? That is a little like, “Is a hammer better than a screwdriver?” Clearly there are times when one tool is better than the other and vice versa (although in general, screws have better holding power than nails, nails are a fast & cheap fastener.) For a number of the regular contributors here, the benefits of a well run democracy outweigh the benefits of a well run fundamentalism government, but the subtle nits make a difference.

In a well run fundy government, one can get a tech per turn; a similar democracy should get two techs per turn at that stage. Even a poorly run fundy government should be able to generate cash easily (but so can a democracy). Well planned democracies can fight wars (it is a challenge) and host military units in the field -- not the democracy’s strong suit; similarly the population growth of a fundy regime will be slower compared to democracy.

As an intermediate player, I tend to toggle back & forth -- but the advanced players that impress me the most seem to drive to democracy as soon as they can & stay there.

 

[Ace]

No. The same skills that keep a democracy running smoothly are the same ones needed to run a "power" fundy gov. So why use fundy when you can use democracy??

IMHO, the only reason to use fundy is that its fun to run a nasty conquering empire without regard to happiness. On rare occasions, I have been known to switch to fundy after getting most of the tech advances and then doing my imitation of Alexander the great. But, in general, once you get the "hang" of democracy, thats the way to go!

 

[Terrapin]

If you like fighting, Fundy is certainly the way to go. But even if a Fundy conquest is your ultimate goal, a stop off in Demo is probably wise. For one thing, you can get ahead in the science race. For another, you can use WLTPD celebrations to grow your cities large. The celebrations remain the single most powerful tool in CivII. In a few turns, you go from an empire of many small cities to an empire of many large cities. The difference is breathtaking.

Of late, I have been replaying the endings of a bunch of my old games, mostly democracies which won via spaceship. My experiments suggest that the best time to abandon Demo for Fundy is shortly after industrialization. This is because when you are first to industrialize is when the other civs gang up on you AND start swapping techs. At this point, you must either stay in Demo and use its vast economic power to maintain your tech edge or else start attacking. The next best time is right after gunpowder, but only if you have the ability to reach out to the other civs with considerable force (like on a small map). It is hard to attack quickly without transports and rasilroads.

 

[Old n Slow]

My switch to Fundy ususally occurs just around the time of Tactics. I'll have one or a few of the ancient wonders & all of the second set. I'll typically have too few cities & too little infrastructure (racing for science) & avoided serious conflicts.

Once I hit Tactics, however, I'll have some opponents with muskets defending so the battles generally go my way -- time to go & conquer some. At the same time, alpines & settlers will go found new distant cities, At the same time, the lacking infrastructure will be completed. And often at the same time, the ai research will also slow down & they sometimes fight each other. I'll stay in this mode for maybe 20-30 turns, sweep up a civ or three, & research a tech or two.

Then, I'll toggle back to democracy, & watch all my primed cities explode with growth, watch the science come in at a tech per turn or two & grow to modern weapons. Once the howies come on line I'll go back & clean house.
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However, that being said, I'm learning new skills -- trade. In the current game of the month, I'm still in democracy & have just picked up robotics -- I might not get around to switching to fundy this game. I'm eager to try Andu's emissary ploy & see I can wage war in democracy, maintain the science of a tech per turn (my last two turns yielded a tech each with a zero science rate), & a spotless reputation en route to the stars.

 

[andvruss]

I love fundy in the later years, when I have a lead in tech and cash, but usually if I get all my cities in the best shape, I am getting techs every 3 turns with usually a 1000+ per turn cash extra. Then I build a large military due to the ten (I think) support free units per city. However, I usually stay in republic of democracy until I have a firm grasp of victory. This has been the trend for the last couple of my Civ 2 games (winning by conquest).

 

[Archer 007]

The key is that a good Democracy can by raise much more money then a good Fundy.

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by archer_007
The key is that a good Democracy can by raise much more money then a good Fundy.

And MUCH more tech!!

 

[HughMungus]

If you're at war or getting to a point where you're about to be at war with another civ (say, if you're the most powerful player and the other civs are about to gang up on you), switch to fundamentalism and just steal the tech you need.