Future Age?

[apatheist]

Anti-matter already exists, but it cannot be mass produced or exists in a stable condition for more than extremely short bursts of time.

Which is why I stated it as anti-matter (production), implying an effective way to produce and store anti-matter for use as power storage or a weapon.

Actually one of the best applications currently is remote operations of very sensitive kinds. The most publicized has been complicated surgeries that required specialists half way across the world. However many more such applications will appear as the equipment becomes cheaper and more sophisticated.

I figure there would be the potential for large productivity gains as your citizens begin to control Giant Death Robots (especially with cybernetics) to do work. There's also the potential for large productivity losses as large parts of your population enter worlds of their own creation and refuse to leave (which is absolutely, totally, completely different from what will happen to every member of this forum come November).

 

[frankthe butler]

I don't mean to be posting too much but i have more ideas--refinements of the original techs i mentioned.
I believe that true life serves as the best model for strategic gameplay, so what i'm recommending is that these techs i mentioned adhere to reality, which you see will do a lot for strategy.

With the Airless maglev, there is no stopping in between the path--that defeats the method of going fast. it would be good if an airless maglev tube were able to move units from one end to the other like railroads did in civ 3, except you have to trade off with not being able to get out before the ride is through. you go all the way to the end.

With the THEL, i think it would be a good idea if this laser was only operational when inside a city. it could be treated by the game as not quite a building, not quite a unit. i wouldn't really like to see it accompanying troops, especially if it was always on the ready. this system takes a lot of effort and a bit of time to set up somewhere.
i would be fine if cities that had a lot of production produced one and it was relocated to any other city.
I think that a kinetic cannon's first shot at a city should always destroy the THEL.
I also think that conventional bombers should not be stopped by the THEL but i like the idea that jet missiles (just as any missile, and of course any artillery that i described earlier) are.

That brings us to kinetic cannon battleships. a refinement on what i said earlier: 4 square range, 95% probability of bombard being successful, two shots per turn, with each shot capable of taking off half the life of another battleship, BUT the upgrade from a normal old battleship does not increase defense in the slightest. a sub or a bomber will be just as powerful against it as they always were. this will make it necessary to accompany these with aircraft carriers (and destroyers), which is what is necessary in real life. the reasons are the same as real life too. a powerful offense with little to no defense against air attack. Air attack should be lethal to battleships. it becomes necessary to have both a balanced airforce and navy if one wants to simply protect one's THELs.

On a possible spacerace:
this is just a suggestion for how a more realistic space race victory might work out>
In order to travel to another star system you'd need a lot of fuel but that is heavy, so in order to get heavy things into space cheaply you'd need SKYHOOK. Skyhook is so heavy to launch you'd need to build the worlds first fusion rocket. I propose that Fusion Rocket be a tech that unlocks a small wonder: fusion rocket, which is necessary for skyhook launch. nanotube mass production unlocks fusion rocket, and thus, Skyhook. Nanotube mass production also unlocks the great wonder of Skyhook which cannot be completed by a city until the fusion rocket small wonder is done. Once Skyhook is completed, any civ that is on friendly terms with the nation that created the Skyhook wonder can build an interstellar spaceship. a tech required to complete the spaceship could be anti-gravity mass production. the civ must also have nanotube mass production. I also think there are too many silly names for components of the spaceship, and they're so easy to build that spacevictory always comes way before all the modern techs are researched, which is unrealistic. i don't like that. i think the remedy for this is to require techs instead of very many components. GUT or UFT --whichever-- should be a required tech for the interstellar space ship. Also robotics/AI and Fusion Rocket.
what is interesting is what these rules for creating the spaceship would do. if a country was simply on good terms with the owner of SKyhook, they could circumvent a lot of the effort since they wouldn't have to build the great and small wonders. if the owner wants to stop anyone from using Skyhook, they would have to declare war on them.
this has all just been suggestions based on what i see as being a more realistic and interesting space race.

 

[Atrebates]

Some more ideas

Superconductors-Okay, they're already around but ones that can be utilised realistically.
Possible results- same as Hoover dam wonder or ?...

Anti-matter- Unrealistic due to instability (but with research you never know, early explosives were hard to handle), however could form 'clean' nukes that don't pollute squares.
Now purely to cover my ass here is a defense of anti-matter, I don't equate it to explosives-the problem is considerably harder, its violent explosion occurs in contact with matter (total conversion via E=mc2) so constraint with forces may eventually be possible even we can't currently think of a solution (as antimatter's reactions to forces are reversed (I think)) and it's civ not a science lesson, this quasi-realism seems okay to me

 

[frankthe butler]

ooh, i know one: Room-Temperature Superconductor
this would change everything about energy transmission and a whole lot more. this is one of the holy grails of Applied Physics/whatever-it-is-that-deals-with-composite-materials-and-stuff. It is supposed to open up a whole lot of new possibilities that i can't for the life of me remember.

This tech should be opened up by GUT/UFT. i don't know what it should do--maybe greater production power due to magnified power plant?
anyway.

 

[sir_schwick]

this would change everything about energy transmission and a whole lot more. this is one of the holy grails of Applied Physics/whatever-it-is-that-deals-with-composite-materials-and-stuff. It is supposed to open up a whole lot of new possibilities that i can't for the life of me remember.

Some applications exist, but a flood of them would become apparent after a few years. The best parts of any of these major steps is that we have no idea about the applications. However for Civ I would guess increased production per city in hammers, gold, and science. Maybe a derived tech that allows railguns or something, or the GDR fans.

 

[Dark Khan]

it's must optional as they said but it must be in. İt would be quite funny to destroy a tank with a cyborg(or terminator "i will be back" ) or the goverment style tecnocracy( religion it can be also) that would be cool. hey there can be space marines (modding) emperor's finest

 

[wolf_brother]

If there was a "Future Age" group of techs, since theres no longer any actual ages, in Civ 4 or a later expansion (maybe even in Civ V) I would definetly hope to see it done like it was done in earlier civs

Yeah, a future "era" would be fun. The game would need to be balanced so that the winner wasn't always decided by the industrial "era" though. I always loved in CTP2 how the landscape totally transformed before your eyes - with hydroponic farms, robotic fisheries, etc. A few futuristic units and terrain improvements would be fun and add a little (more) spice to the game.

I beleive that the implementation of the call to power series did, for the most part, future ages quite well.
1. First off, you could build units with better hit points, attack points, greater cargo sizes, and more useful travel and engagement/recognizance options.

2. Secondly, you hade more improvements and tile improvements to build as well.

 

[Stilgar08]

voted "no" - Firaxis should concentrate on the "normal" gameplay.
Future is for Alpha Centauri or for modders , IMHO.

 

[frankthe butler]

I have another idea for a tech:
i don't know where to place it: it could be either of two things: Division of Labor (which would not be a future tech)/ a future tech called Perfect Economy or Perfect Deflationary Economy. What this tech would do is make it so that wasted shields at the end of the turn get carried over to the next thing produced. the game makers should put this in either in the modern age or in the advanced era/future techs depending on how it affects gameplay. The reason this would be so great is because there is an effective limit on how productive a city can be since so much of the time a power plant adds just enough productivity not to even need it, since the thing being produced will only take two turns whether you have a power plant or not.
This tech could be unlocked by the Prisoner's Dilemma Wonder--perhaps the only wonder that unlocks a tech.

I sort of cringe at the idea that cyborgs will be these powerful terminator units-- if there are any killing robots they should be like the kinds we see emerging today and have significant disadvantages.

I'd also like to say I am surprised at so many people voting "no" when future techs could simply be an option that can be turned on with a checkbox. futhermore, people who claim they know what the developers should and should not be spending their time on are not in a position to make that calculation.

And NO, modding isn't the answer. there are a ton of people out there who are not savvy enough to do the modding stuff or even deal with other peoples' mods. i am one of them. i'm not going to alter the game or get someone's altered copy. what's in the game is what i'll play. i can't stand to deal with that stuff. too many bad experiences.

 

[Superkrest]

thank you frank....im kinda getting tired of all this mod talk..."its the solution for everything"...im not mod savy...and i dont like to download others mods....ive found many (not all.) to be not very deep...or missing super key aspects..wich is understandable due to the difference between fraxis...and a modder...i would love to see an OPTIONAL (for all you who dont like it) future age...for the simple fact of fun. thats it..not a profound statement of what would be right or wrong..i had fun with alpha centuri..why becuase it was silly and neat...thats all..id like that same thing to apply to a civ game that im not ready to stop playing..so maybe it gets a little bazzare...oh well..its already weird that in civ 4 my islamic Aztecs will be nuking the doaist english for stealing the "internet" tech. oh well..cant change minds but if you dont like it..dont use it..this forums a pretty good indicator of what civ players like..id say the majority rules on this issue

 

[Volstag]

Leave future eras to some other game. It really, IMO, has no place in a civilization title. I guess I don't understand why a 5th era is going to make any significant difference to the core gameplay; as if the 4 previous eras wasn't enough.

What, really, can they give us beyond units/weapons/techs that are even more outrageous? The only thing I can see it doing is rapidly accelerating/widening the current state/trend of the game -- e.g. if you're already winning, you're going to keep on winning... and if you're losing, you're going to lose big. By the modern era, the pecking order, generally speaking, has already been firmly established. A "future era" would be totally redundant, IMO.

-V

 

[Superkrest]

no its simply as i stated before..for some players...it would be nice to continue a game..whether it has been won or lost..just for the shear fun of it..it maybe redundant for you ...then dont use it..i dont think it should be a game nessicity...but its a better option the having the game end by a certain year..key word being option...as much as i like this idea..i would only like it if it was an "option"

 

[sir_schwick]

i don't know where to place it: it could be either of two things: Division of Labor (which would not be a future tech)/ a future tech called Perfect Economy or Perfect Deflationary Economy. What this tech would do is make it so that wasted shields at the end of the turn get carried over to the next thing produced. the game makers should put this in either in the modern age or in the advanced era/future techs depending on how it affects gameplay.

This should be a feature from the first turn. There is no logical reason to assume that once your current project is done, citizens wait for an arbitrary date to start on the next one. What problem would there be with 10 MA being produced if a city had 1200 HPT production?

I'd also like to say I am surprised at so many people voting "no" when future techs could simply be an option that can be turned on with a checkbox. futhermore, people who claim they know what the developers should and should not be spending their time on are not in a position to make that calculation.

Because projects have finite resources that can be utilized. Resources used for a future age cannot be used on a better AI or diplomacy system, for example. Content that most people will seldom see will appease a minority of the audience. I don't have to see their balance sheet to understand that two minus one equal one versus two minus zero equalling two.

And NO, modding isn't the answer. there are a ton of people out there who are not savvy enough to do the modding stuff or even deal with other peoples' mods. i am one of them. i'm not going to alter the game or get someone's altered copy. what's in the game is what i'll play. i can't stand to deal with that stuff. too many bad experiences.

You cannot start designing games for the lowest common denominator. Designing games is a folley for the highest common denominator is folley as well. There is a middle ground somewhere between a standard deviation in either direction of the median. In there people do know how to install mods and mostly download mods that received good ratings and reviews.

thank you frank....im kinda getting tired of all this mod talk..."its the solution for everything"...im not mod savy...and i dont like to download others mods....ive found many (not all.) to be not very deep...or missing super key aspects..wich is understandable due to the difference between fraxis...and a modder...i would love to see an OPTIONAL (for all you who dont like it) future age...for the simple fact of fun. thats it..not a profound statement of what would be right or wrong..i had fun with alpha centuri..why becuase it was silly and neat...thats all..id like that same thing to apply to a civ game that im not ready to stop playing..so maybe it gets a little bazzare...oh well..its already weird that in civ 4 my islamic Aztecs will be nuking the doaist english for stealing the "internet" tech. oh well..cant change minds but if you dont like it..dont use it..this forums a pretty good indicator of what civ players like..id say the majority rules on this issue

You say the majority rules so listen to your advice. CFC hosts dozens if not hundreds of mods for Civ 3. These are designed, built, reviewed, and discussed as much as Civ 4 itself. The modding community is a very powerful majority that does deserve its credit. In such a setting, it is wise for Firaxis to develop the core gameplay and functionality and leave minority content to talented modders.

no its simply as i stated before..for some players...it would be nice to continue a game..whether it has been won or lost..just for the shear fun of it..it maybe redundant for you ...then dont use it..i dont think it should be a game nessicity...but its a better option the having the game end by a certain year..key word being option...as much as i like this idea..i would only like it if it was an "option"

I do understand your arguement, but feel the gains are not high enough to offset losses from wherever resources are shifted for future techs. Personally I also never liked the arbitrary 2050 end date. My solutions included having the scaling of the years based on the tech leader. This way the finish date was on turn whatever every time, but a different year depending on international progress. The other was this scaling, but the game always ending random x number of turns after getting certain late techs.

 

[apatheist]

I guess I don't understand why a 5th era is going to make any significant difference to the core gameplay; as if the 4 previous eras wasn't enough.

It wouldn't, not inherently. The simple, obvious, dumb way of doing a future age would be to just tack on bigger, faster, better versions of the same. That lengthens the game and seems potentially exciting to me, but I readily concede that it's not enough on its own to justify the effort. The future age has to bring something that opens up the game somehow, that makes it fundamentally different from the ages that came before. I think all the ages should be like that, really.

You should need different strategies and tactics in each age to succeed. There should certainly be considerable overlap, but the game shouldn't allow you to just keep recycling the same formula every era and succeed with it. Each age should somehow unlock new capabilities that extend or obsolete what came before. For example, governments should have a deeper, more pervasive influence.

The only thing I can see it doing is rapidly accelerating/widening the current state/trend of the game -- e.g. if you're already winning, you're going to keep on winning... and if you're losing, you're going to lose big. By the modern era, the pecking order, generally speaking, has already been firmly established. A "future era" would be totally redundant, IMO.

If done that way, it would be. Isn't one of the problems that people see in civ3 that the game is won too early? Adding more dynamism into the life cycle of a civilization with civil wars and minor civs would address some of that. My inarticulate and incoherent ramblings above hopefully suggest something else that makes it more complicated.

but its a better option the having the game end by a certain year..key word being option...as much as i like this idea..i would only like it if it was an "option"

If they're going to put time and effort into creating and balancing such an age, then it's not going to be an option. The only clean way to make it seamless and yet optional is through well-designed victory conditions. You effectively have an option the whole time to end the game by domination or conquest. It may be harder in earlier times, but that's effectively an option right there. If you don't want to bother with the future or modern ages, just win the game in the industrial age. Or retire and go by score. Or play a faster game. Attaching the label "optional" to the whole age relegates it to a lesser status. If they're doing it, they should do it right, which means it should be as an integral and seamless part of the whole game.

 

[Superkrest]

i see were your coming from with the optional aspect..but im not sure it would rally any sort of support any other way...maybe were normally you end the game by year(or upon the first future tech..) a pop up comes up..and says.."sire, would like us to continue pursuing knowledge" thus unlocking the future age...or even at the begging ...as a map option..ie..age 3 bill...barbarians..rampent...future age's..yes...etc.

 

[apatheist]

i see were your coming from with the optional aspect..but im not sure it would rally any sort of support any other way...maybe were normally you end the game by year(or upon the first future tech..) a pop up comes up..and says.."sire, would like us to continue pursuing knowledge" thus unlocking the future age...or even at the begging ...as a map option..ie..age 3 bill...barbarians..rampent...future age's..yes...etc.

That's why I'm saying that a future age needs to come along with something that upgrades the gameplay to make it interesting beyond the "gee whiz" aspect. The future age shouldn't be special like that, though; every age should have that. If they did that, then I think the complaints about the future age would disappear. Many people are against a future age at least partly because they feel like it's pointless. The same reasoning applies to at least half of the modern age as well, though, so Firaxis might as well tackle the problem as a whole by increasing differentiation between ages. Then it's not pointless, because it's not just adding neat "gee whiz" things but extending the lifespan of the game by giving you new strategic options.

 

[frankthe butler]

Apatheist made some very good points. this is no longer just on the subject of future Techs but this is the thread it was raised in, and we may as well continue talking about it here. perhaps a new thread should be started?
It would indeed be a good thing if leads and lags were more unstable in their nature. but just so long as we don't go too far and discount the effects of exponentially compounded work that has been put into making a civ great. this is a gamewide concept that is fundamental for the developers to address. finding the right balance is the hard part. i would like more instability only if it led to forcing the player behave to the utmost of his strategic ability at every turn, and if it opened up as many possibilities to get ahead as for the player to get behind, and of course, didn't do away with compound gains already made.

 

[frankthe butler]

Also, i agree that each 'age' should be different. i think there should be a strategy that works best for every age. i would like to suggest for the future 'age' that that strategy be to push science to the limit, liberalize, and not try to take out other countries, especially if they have a lot of wilderness like jungle or mountains around cities. it would be good if international diplomacy were much more key, and even smaller nations could really hurt superpowers that tried to take them over.

 

[civ3 kicker]

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