Future era Ideas

[Mewtarthio]

Let me mention the Grandfather Paradox since it ties the knot for the impossibility of linear time travel (linear meaning a single time stream as oppose to multiple temporal dimensions. Inter-Dimensional travel is quite another subject).

If you went back in time and killed your Grandfather, you would cease to exist in a future where you could have traveled back in time therefor you could have never traveled back in time in the first place. Time can neither be stopped nor reversed.

Ah, but why would the murderer need to travel back in time? To everyone else, it would simply appear that a mysterious character popped out of nowhere and killed a person. Why would time skip back once again as soon as it reached the point where the murderer would have gone back? There's nobody to travel back in time, ergo time will not go back. History would be altered. Time travel does not necessarily mean that all time travel that ever will occur has had its effects shown in our lifetime.

...Wait. I'm arguing with you despite the fact that we're on the same side as far as the main topic goes.

In conclusion,
Future era is bad.

 

[mortalmadman]

Let me mention the Grandfather Paradox since it ties the knot for the impossibility of linear time travel (linear meaning a single time stream as oppose to multiple temporal dimensions. Inter-Dimensional travel is quite another subject).

If you went back in time and killed your Grandfather, you would cease to exist in a future where you could have traveled back in time therefor you could have never traveled back in time in the first place. Time can neither be stopped nor reversed.

I totaly agree. I hate all the movies that just put down some werid nonscince not even close laws without thing. In terminator he said that he couldn't bring back electronics like way advanced guns. What about THE terminator.

Do you think the univerous would destruct or freze or repeat if you killed your ancicters back in time.

I was puting them down thinking of strategie. I think there real good. I have a LOT of hope with magnets. Magnets make energy without the need for energy. Caus eit uses energy from the core.

Plus the future era could be an option

 

[Captain]

Originally Posted by mortalmadman: "Do you think the univerous would destruct or freze or repeat if you killed your ancicters back in time."

No because one would not be able to go back and kill our ancestors in the first place like the paradox I previously mentioned states.

~-~

Back on topic now, I feel that Civ4 should incorporate more futuristic technologies for players (such as myself) who enjoy a longer game and sometimes play past the end date. However the technologies should not be to far out like has been discussed and I am pretty sure that they won't be.

 

[dh_epic]

Yeah I'm pretty tired of future era posts.

Especially when the modern age is already pretty dry when it comes to strategy and gameplay.

That's about as dumb as spending billions of dollars in a misguided effort to make other people in the world free, when you have plenty of problems at home.

Improve what you've got instead of branching out, and focus on what you're supposed to focus on.

 

[Yuri2356]

For futuristic whatnot I think that they should at least work in technology that is just now being applied.
For example: Maglev trains, like those being used in China, could be implimented as an upgrade for railways. If roads allow 1/3 move, rail allowed 1/6 (double road, makes sense), and then mag lev is either instant or something like 1/12, equal to 4 roads. Of course, mag lev would have the downside of relying on electricity, and could only be used within so many squares (about 5 or 6) of a city w/power plant. You could also introduce power lines that could be built in areas too far from cities, but need electricity. They would me maintained from the treasury and only be built on flat land.

I belive the game should have a near-future era, maby even far-future. If they don't work some level of futureistic tech into Civ4, they better have SMAC2 Ready and waiting to appease the Sci-fi fans.

 

[mortalmadman]

Einstien would say other wize and nice ideas yuri. I use to have some WILD ideas. But atlast, drooling is the curse of humanity.

 

[LewsTherin]

First of all, I really doubt there is going to be a future era in Civ4.. It might have been a nice option if you could have turned it on/off, but it is doubtful the developers are going to include it (as we honestly don't really know what is going to happen.. anyhow, it's a big job to implement/predict it etc.).
Still, I have a few comments on the techs you thought up.
Fusion Power: Might be a very important tech here - currently using lasers or magnetic fields only temperatures of 5-10 million degrees can be made for controlled fusion reaction, and some 70 million is needed. If discovered, it would be a clean (unlike fission, which produces all the radioactive stuff) way to get a LOT of energy. A much greater output if you build it in a city?
Advanced Robotics: yes, I suppose it would be nice, maybe mix it up with nanotechnology (which will be very important in the future).
Advanced Enginering: I don't know, maybe nanotechnology would do it? Or make it a somewhat rewarding tech after you research nanotechnology?
EMF: Extremely powerful electromagnetic fields will be quite useful in the future. As for dealing with nukes, it sounds a lot like scifi (no idea how possible it would be, I have yet to do research about the topic), but a device that would increase the critical mass of fissionable substances in a certain area would render all nukes useless.
Plasma - sounds good.
Advance fusion: what do you mean? Maybe a more peaceful improvments in the field, but what advanced weapons would it produce? Current multimegaton nukes are all H-bombs, which use fusion to make the explosion superpowerful. If you want something with total destruction, how about antimatter (a cubic centimeter of which would blow all Earth apart). ; )
Advanced Laser: I don't know about it being the new nuke, but it would make for a great tactical weapon.
Anti-Gravity: Not quite anti-gravity but the control over gravity would make a huge step forward in technology - but it is too far in the future. And teleportation and time machine are simply not going to be made, and if they are not in the near future time period.
Cloaking: Sounds good.

 

[mortalmadman]

I put some definitions. And I kinda just put teleportation and time machine as an apifamy of science and city improvwements. So it will not only be YAERS after 2000 whatever but also take a LONg time to make. I don't like games to end till everyones dead. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Yuri2356]

I'd like a source on the 1 cubic cm of antimatter, i'm thinking it would have to be pretty dense to contain ehough anti to cancel out the earth.

But allowing Civ players to reach the point of planet-destroying weaponry would be just plain stupid, next thing you know each civ has a planet, and some new tech like "antiproton beam" allows building of the death star, and you go arround blasting other civs.
"These are the co-ordinates, but where's Babylon?"
"I sense a great disturbance in the force."
"That's no moon! It's a battlestation!"
"Mao, I ham your fasher, ja?"
"We are the Rome. You will be asimilated. Resistance is futile."
"I'm looking for Joan d'Arc."
"All your city are belong to us."

And so on and so forth.

 

[sir_schwick]

First, on the grandfather paradox. If you go back in time, you already exist from that point forward. You have just eliminated the need for your grandfather to exist, so when you murder him, nothing happens to you. Then history proceeds as it would with the dead grandfather and the new you. As for the original universe, no way to get back, so it doesn't matter.

Actually a time-portal would make a neat easter-egg, maybe for beating Sid with every Civ. The time-portal would allow you to send a force of men and yourself back to the year(turn) of your choice. The world would be like it was then, and your AI counterpart would control the empire, since its a version of you. Of course you would not control any cities, but any civs you conquer would get your level of technology. This means you could create multiple version of your army in about the same time.

As for future tech, this is definitely a SMAC 2 idea.

 

[Yuri2356]

But then you could use time travell to generate a time loop and make yourself infinatley powerfull, thus winning conquest in 4000BC by nuking everone's settlers before they build their first citys!!!! But if other Civs build time machines, they would send their own units back to try and stop you. Why do I suddenly hear the Terminator theme?

Just Imagine....
Vee har zee vikings, vee har strong hand powerfool. Ve shall settle hand be begining hour noo hempire now, Ja?
Species Identified: human, caucaisn (sp) male.
Whoo har yoo?
We are rome, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile.
You vill not stop hour varriors!!! CHARGE!!!!!
*ZAPKILLSHASHEXPLODEGOUGERIPTEARKILLGOUGE*
Ow, zat iz beehing hurting....

***congratulations, you have achived paradox victory, the universe shall now implode***

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

hahahahahahaha...good one!

 

[Elgalad]

A little off topic, but related to the time machine/alternate civ concept

Eric Flint has written and continues to write a great series with the premise that a wormhole randomly sends about 20 square miles of land and everything on it (a small West Virginia town) from the 21st century to the year 1632 smack in the middle of Germany during the middle of the thirty years' war. Very good reading!

On the third book now, 1634. The last book rocked.. naval warfare pitting the entire Danish Navy against 2 modern speedboats, a cabin cruiser, and a piper cub. Guess who wins?

-Elgalad

 

[LewsTherin]

I'd like a source on the 1 cubic cm of antimatter, i'm thinking it would have to be pretty dense to contain ehough anti to cancel out the earth.

Well, while it would only cancel out the same amount of mass of regular matter, the amount of energy released in such an occurence might just blow a planet apart

 

[Yuri2356]

Ya, I know now that's what you meant.
And now, more Civ Time travell:
*TIMEPORTALEFFECTAMAJIG*
Are you Bismark?
um, ja, who har you?
*blam*
*dies*
*TIMEPORTALEFFECTAMAJIG*
Did it work?
It is done.
Amazing! With bismark out of the way....
Time will tell my friend, time will tell....
Sid Meier presents.....
In association with Westwood Studios....
Civilization 4: Red Alert.
(<stalin) They are the enemies of the people comrade, they must be destroyed.
Da, comrade Stalin! we shall crush them!
Russia: INVADE
Europe: Ow my inhabitants

 

[sir_schwick]

Nice one Yuri. Especially the 'ow my inhabitants'.
Is *TIMEPORTALEFFECTAMAJIG* patented?

Well, while it would only cancel out the same amount of mass of regular matter, the amount of energy released in such an occurence might just blow a planet apart

I understand that is why nuclear reactions are so effective, because the energy fields between sub-particles and electro-magnetic fields are so great. How does anti-matter/matter reactions generate energy? I am ignorant on the principle of that.

 

[Yuri2356]

It's more or less the same as the whole atom splitting thing. The Mater atom and Anti Atom cancell eachother out, and cease to be matter. But conservation of energy states that they can't be detroyed or created, so both atoms becomne energy. At least I think that's how it works, can't be sure on that.

and yes, *TIMEPORTALEFFECTAMAJIG* is pattented, as well as "ow, zat iz being hurting"

 

[Alafin]

Having read the objections to any future era aspect to Civ, I am inspired to write this response. Basically the whole idea of there being a win position where one branch of humanity "wins" is ludicrous and totally ahistorical. If history teaches us nothing it is that there is no win position that doesn't fundamentally include all of the peoples and nations of the earth in the win. The sending of a spaceship to colonize a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri is a totally arbitrary goal, yet a goal of some kind is necessary to give the game focus. I feel pity for people who try to "win" civ through military conquest. To me, that kind of "win" is in reality a loss. Rather, a goal that would truly be worth achieving should be one that firmly establishes world peace, so that, in the shade of the tree of collective security, the energy that currently goes into the development of new and more efficient ways of slaughtering each other can be directed into research that will truly improve the quality of our lives. This will be the true peace dividend.

Yes, some will argue that mankind has always been warlike, and therefore always will be. What this argument fails to take into account is that mankind has two natures, an animal nature that prompts us to act in selfish ways, for mere survival as well as for self-advancement (both of the individual and "tribal/family" type), and a higher nature whether conceived of as merely rational (a mental acuity unavailable to even our closest animal kindred) or as a divine-endowment (some kind of soul or spirit unique to us) as most religious belief-systems suggest. It is my argument that this higher nature enables us to rise above our animal nature to achieve goals no animal could even conceive of, one of which is the annihilation of all life on the planet (save the lowly cockroach), but another of which is the permanent establishment of international peace in the world under which the true spiritual potential of mankind could at long last flourish.

Now, I ask you, which of you in the heart of your heart does not believe that the achievement of world peace is not a worthier goal of civilization than the establishment of a colony on another planet?

Humbly yours,
Alafin Bahahotep

 

[Mewtarthio]

Ahh, so you want a "Hippie Victory" Condition? How would said victory be achieved? Gain Peace Treaties with everyone on Earth? Too easy; I've often had long periods of World Peace. To achieve victory in Civilization is to make sure that you become the leader of the world, whether through military might, important power over other countries (UN), saturating the globe with your cultural superiority so that everyone is essentially of your nation, or even abandoning Earth entirely and establishing your superiority on another world.

 

[LewsTherin]

Yuri - LOL, good ones there

Yup, the matter simply dissapears transforming into pure energy - and a lot of it

Alafin - I agree with you that the ultimate goal of humanity is to develop world peace. The more animal nature of a man is warlike, and we must indeed overcome it for the better of humanity. Such an important aspect of our life should, of course, enter the Civilization game, and I believe the diplomatic victory depicts it, at least partially.
But the fact remains, this is still a game. In real life I hate war, but in this game it sometimes is to my tastes to prove my skills and conquer the world - if that doesn't seem like fun to you, you can of course simply try not to play the game that way. I mean the main focus of Civilization is to get your civ to win over all the others - it can't be applied to real life, of course, but hey it's just a game.
I do think that a World Peace type of victory would be interesting though, but I am not sure how you would really make it work... Maybe that would be a rather interesting topic to brainstorm about?