G-III Charlie

Bartleby, I see it now. I guess too much AW, no trades allowed.

Aigburth, I would expect that more civs will hurt more than help.
1) more chances to have access cut off before you see most of the land. Read fewer huts.
2) more likely to get crowded.
3) will have to war some to get more land.

It is hard not to have some wars, but they will be nothing, a couple of units around the middle ages and even if you do not make peace for a time, probably no one will come after the tiny rush.

If you are crowded, you will have to make more troops to take the land and if you are so unlucky as to not have iron or horses, that will require additional troops.

You don't need much for a 8 or 9 civs, coal is enough and one of these three, horse/mine/salt. resources for the modern age can be gotten in deals or even force at that point.
 
The big thing is that you have to research the technology. You can't trade for it and you can't pop it from the hut.

I think a war could be useful - if you can pop monarchy and give up republic and monarchy to, say, greece or sumeria (who have early UU's), then attack them with a warrior so to kick off their GA, you might be able to get invention. or you might not - sometimes the AI researches chivalry, and they always suck.
 
sometimes the AI researches chivalry, and they always suck.

Not always; it gives another optional tech for you to have at the turn of age. In a game I'm playing it made all the difference in my negotiations to get all first-tier Industrial Age techs - then I drew Commie as my free tech. :wallbash:
 
The big thing is that you have to research the technology. You can't trade for it and you can't pop it from the hut.

Popping the last tech from a hut works as long as your research goal is set to it. That means there have to be no other choices left. Construction is a likely candidate; with Polytheism you don't even need Monarchy.
 
Not always; it gives another optional tech for you to have at the turn of age. In a game I'm playing it made all the difference in my negotiations to get all first-tier Industrial Age techs - then I drew Commie as my free tech. :wallbash:

You are best not to buy nationalism as it increases your chances of getting an optional tech by opening up both communism and fascism
 
oh - I thought that if you popped the tech, you weren't able to go through F4 and get 2nd level techs.

It is important that you have set your research goal on that last required tech. If you have and pop the tech, there will first be an alert window telling you that you got tech xy and after that there'll be a dialog window asking for a new research goal. Just choose "Big Picture" and the rest is the same.

Spoiler :
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I submitted a 890AD victory for Russia.

I got 20 2+cow starts from MapFinder. Settings were 80%pangea, warm, wet, 5byo, sedentary barbs, least aggressive ai, 6 sci rivals excluding Sumeria and Babylon. These settings turned out to be not so good. Several were island starts and often ai's were on other islands. Huts tended to run out as well as I only popped through the entire AA once. The last map I played turned out to be the best, but was still less than ideal.

I started by building scouts in Moscow. I popped a town by some wines before 3000BC. Research was set to CB at max even though the chance for an SGL was slim. Mysticism was then researched at max. fishing for an SGL while I popped/traded my way through writing. My 2 towns built 6 scouts before starting on workers and settlers. I popped wc, the wheel, hbr, iron working, math, and writing while trading for masonry and the alphabet by the time mysticism finished with no SGL. Research was then set to philosophy at max. I popped literature and CoL just before philo finished in 1950BC and took Republic as my free tech getting my first SGL for Philo immediately revolting for an unusually high 7-turn anarchy and rushing the Pyramids. Republic was established in 1700BC, but by this time I discovered that the Byzantines and Korea were not on my continent and I popped no more techs.

I had to research MM, currency, construction, and polytheism while expanding which took 27 turns since I had to use the lux. slider for a while and had high unit upkeep. I reached the MA in 1025BC and even though I only knew 4 civs I was fortunate to trade for all first-tier techs, getting invention as my free tech. Research was then set for the upper brabnch of the tech tree. I also got an SGL for polytheism which I used for rushing the MoM in Moscow. I didn't have a good site for the Colossus and planned to get my GA with Cope's in Moscow. At this point I have 22 towns, 1 city, 56 citizens, 13 workers, 3 settlers, 2 warriors, 4 libraries, the Pyramids, and 2 luxes hooked up. I have exactly 9 tiles per city according to CAII making 122bpt at 90% science.

It then took 31 turns to research theology, education, astronomy and banking at which point I acheived sustainable four-turn research on gunpowder in 350BC. At this point I had 43 towns/cities, 155 citizens, 61 workers, 1 slave, 2 warriors, 2 galleys, 1 settler, 15 libraries, 4 universities, the Pyramids, MoM, FP, 4 luxes, iron and horses. I've got 8.3 tiles per city and 370bpt at 90% science.

I completed Cope's in Moscow in 207BC kicking off my GA. I then researched chemistry, physics, ToG, magnetism and metallurgy during my GA reaching the IA in 150AD. I made an error bumping science down when the GA ended and lost a turn researching metallurgy. I had met Korea by then and got industrialization as my free tech without buying nationalism. I now had 85 towns, 300 citizens, 97 workers, 1 slave, 14 settlers, 2 galleys, 4 MDI, 4 luxuries trading for a 5th, iron, horses, salt, coal, 29 libraries, 13 universities, 2 courthouses, 4 markets, 3 banks, 1 barracks, 1 aqueduct, 2 harbors, the Pyramids, MoM, Cope's, Newton's and the FP. I'm down to 6.9 tiles per city making 800bpt at 100% science.

I then researched the corporation in 4-turns, but then took 5-turns on electricity before resuming 4-turn researsh for the rest of the game, though some techs were close. Korea finally built a harbor gaining me a 6th luxury. The Byzantines never built a harbor, but I built one city on their island to trade for all 8 luxuries by the modern age. I had 112 cities and 900+ pop with about 7.4 tiles per city and had also had two cities flip to me. I got a third SGL for electronics which I planned to use to rush Seti in Moscow after it completed Hoover's Dam. I timed a pre-build for the ToE and Palace upon entering the modern age choosing miniaturization and space flight and getting nuclear power as my free tech after gifting everyone to the modern age. I made a giant mistake on my Internet pre-build as the Palace completed before the ToE. Luckily, it caused no lost turns, but I'm not likely to forget the build order of towns on pre-builds in the future. I was able to research satellites in 4-turns and after I rushed the Internet instead of Seti, I was able to get 4-turn research on synthetic fibers, the laser, superconductor and robotics for a launch in 890AD.

There were no wars at all in this game and I was able to claim 44% territory peacefully and could have got more if it was needed. I'm pretty sure this game will be beat and I'll be running MapFinder for another try. This time I'll go for 60%pangea and add-in Sumeria and France. Good luck, everyone.:)
 
Two questions:

1) I read where the problem of science is not calculated correctly and could be avoided, but not how that works?

2) I see where some mention that Babylon being in the game, could result in no SGL's for the player? Is this a known issue or just a urban legend?
 
Hi vmxa. Welcome to the world of fast research. It's good to see you!

1) I read where the problem of science is not calculated correctly and could be avoided, but not how that works?
On the turn after the end of your GA, the program info is still displaying info as if you were in a GA. This means that you have to estimate where to put the slider if you have a research project that ends on the turn after your GA finishes. This can also be a problem with shields but is not normally so annoying as you have less options to increase/decrease production.

2) I see where some mention that Babylon being in the game, could result in no SGL's for the player? Is this a known issue or just a urban legend?
It's just relating to the first research project. CB is a cheap tech and so this offers the player a fast way of getting an SGL opportunity if they leave out the only SCI civ that starts with that tech. I think that I first read about the idea in a SirPleb thread IIRC.
 
Ok, I thought they meant the whole game. As far as the GA thing, I don't go by the slider count anyway. I am tracking the beakers invested.
 
Ok, I thought they meant the whole game. As far as the GA thing, I don't go by the slider count anyway. I am tracking the beakers invested.

But the bug affects also the F1 display of how many beakers you are currently making. So, the problem on the last turn of a GA to figure out how many beakers your are going to put into research.
 
I am not using F1, I am using a spreadsheet I wrote. I add in the beakers made on the turn and it has a running count as well has what is needed. I don't use it all the time as most games, it is not important to me.
 
I finally got around to trying out some starts that I had generated and I've submitted an 880AD finish, beating PrinceMyshkin's game by the finest of margins!

My settings were 60% Pangea-wet-temperate-5BYO. I thought that 60% would ensure plenty of huts for all and it seemed to work. I had all the scientifics plus Rome, England and France to ensure that as many techs as possible were available just in case the early huts were not too generous.

Tech wise I started on Iron Working, hoping to then be able to research Phil once that had completed. It worked well and in fact I spent a few turns with scouts hovering near huts once I knew Writing, whilst I finished Iron Working. There was no way that I wanted to pop Phil at this stage! I finished Philosophy at the end of 2270BC and got an SGL for Republic. I only had three towns in total as I had built a granary in Moscow. What a waste! This was my only SGL but it was the important one.

I came out of Anarchy a few turns later with a massive unit support. 7 scouts, 7 workers, 5 warriors and only three towns! Of course some of the warriors were disbanded but my science was struggling. I wanted a quick anarchy and so took it early but on reflection maybe I should have waited a bit. I tried to research MM whilst popping the rest and hoping for some cash huts to keep me going.

In the end I popped MM but I still managed to see the Big Picture before getting my freebie. I didn't think that this happened so I was very happy. I only had four scientific contacts though and none of them gained Feud. I got lucky though and managed to get Theology despite this. I later got Feud when I bumped into Babylon and gifted them. I had entered the MA in 1725BC with just 21 bpt at 40% science. :lol:

As I got more towns planted my science increased and my unit costs decreased but I needed stacks of workers due to large tracts of jungle and marsh. I did have a fair number of luxes within reach though and so lux tax normally stayed at aroung 10%. Research was given a big kick by my GA which started in 900BC. I hand built the Colossus and MoM to try and get it as early as possible. Astronomy had taken 14 turns, even with the last few at the start of my GA, but I soon got my tech rate up to 5-6 turns for the remainder of the MA. I messed up on a four turn Metallurgy project, whilst micromanaging some specialsts and I fell short by one scientist. :blush: My only four turn project therefore was Magnetism.

No one got Nationalism and my freebie was Industrialism. Tech rate then stalled at 5 turns/tech for quite a while until I got to Combustion, by which time I had cleared enough jungle for my specialist farms to finally get me to the perfect four turners.

I entered Modern Times hoping that my scientific friends would get all the techs. It was looking shaky when five of the first six got Rocketry but I got lucky with the last two. The internet prebuild enabled four turn research to continue and I launched without a single war.

Now to try again but improve my specialist farm management to PrinceMyshkin's level...
 

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Tone - What date did you reach the Industrial Age? I am playing a promising game where I have just reached Industrial in 130bc and it looks like I should have 4 turn research for the rest of the game, though I did get Ironclads as my free tech :sad:
 
Got one going now, it's 520 Ad and I'm finishing up Refining... hoping that between ToE and modern tech trading I can get lucky, but I doubt it.

Getting Education for the Philosophy freebie was fun though! :)
 
10AD. You're going to smash my date by the sounds of things.

When did you get Republic?

Later. Probably too late. Roughly 450 BC? I traded for it. It's not required to advance to the next age, so I skipped it. I was in Monarchy from about 2100BC give or take (not at a computer to check it), having popped everything else while researching Writing. ;) Then when I got Writing I researched Philo, popping CoL/Lit/MM in between.

At the age change, I gifted up and traded for Mono and Engineering (I only knew 2 civs at this point--got Feudalism later on), drew Theology as my free tech, and then chose Education.

I'm not sure if the double-revolt is a wise idea, though I think it is IF you are going to wait as long as I did. I probably should have taken Education and researched Republic myself, I think. That's clearly better than the other way around, both in terms of research time and in terms of being able to get Universities up quickly.

Also got a SGL for Ceremonial Burial to make the Pyramids in 3000 BC, and a later one with Invention (rushed Cop's). All that, and I am not going to clock in with a great time I don't think. Couple of stupid mistakes, combined with not quite enough expansion, combined with a not central enough location to really get enough productive core cities. I think I can still bring it in in 3 digits with competent play and use of the ToE, but it'll be close. Just got out of the GA, and I've been on pretty consistent 5 turn research in the industrial. :(
 
Bah. 5 out of 6 civs drew Computers in the modern age. That didn't help. Had the free tech and the ToE planned for that turn, could have gotten 7 free modern techs but got only 5 instead. Projected finish about 1100.
 
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