G-III Charlie

only 6 scientific civs? You can get 7 easily - Germany, Persia, Ottomans, Sumeria, Greece, Korea, Byzantium. If you put in Babylon, you can try for an SGL from The Wheel, though that's twice as expensive, but is less likely to be popped from an early hut.
 
I finally got a game with a leader from The Wheel, but my hut-luck was pretty poor, it was 1600 BC by the time I popped Construction. I got Invention as my free tech, while I'd have preferred Theology. I left it at that stage last night. I don't think I'll bother gifting Invention around as I don't fancy the chances of anyone actually getting to Gunpowder before me.

I had a couple of goes as the Sumerians and the Byzantines at the weekend, I was typically getting to the end of the middle ages around 10 AD--on a par with my previous Russian effort. None of those games were particularly well-managed, because I had hangovers on Saturday and Sunday (and I had one for the Russian game). :blush:
 
only 6 scientific civs? You can get 7 easily - Germany, Persia, Ottomans, Sumeria, Greece, Korea, Byzantium. If you put in Babylon, you can try for an SGL from The Wheel, though that's twice as expensive, but is less likely to be popped from an early hut.

No argument--and perhaps I'll toss in a seventh next time. At the time it seemed like six was more than plenty. It does leave more room for immediate expansion
(not that Warlord AIs really put up much of a fight), and may mean a couple more huts.

On a Large map, it seemed like I'd get close to the next age before meeting more than 2 or 3 civs... maybe another Sci civ is a good idea. Hmm.
 
Playing as Russia, 60% water pangaea, wet, temperate, 5 billion years old.

Barbarians sedentary – I initially tried playing with roaming barbs. The theory was that warlord barbs were not really a problem, and the periodic extra 25 gold comes in handy. I also seem to be able to buy more AI workers with barbs on. It worked well for the Ancient Age, but the massive uprising at the start of the Middle Ages was much more trouble than it was worth so I switched to sedentary.

Rivals – Greece, Germany, Persia, Ottomans, Korea, Sumeria, and Byzantines (all scientifics except Babylon and no others).

AI Aggression – most aggressive. It wasn’t as if the AI would be a threat so I thought some war happiness might be good.

MapFinder set to find 2 cows and a river. I played the first 15 or so turns on many maps – if I didn’t get both a Ceremonial Burial SGL and a popped settler within 15 turns, the map was abandoned.

The start:



And by 3450 BC:



At that point, I didn’t actually have Masonry yet, but luck continued to be with me. Only 2 turns later, I met my closest contact – the Persians.



The Pyramids were rushed in St. Petersburg in 3300 BC.

Hut popping went very well – one of my 6 scouts popped Construction in 2430 BC, so I had all AA techs except Monarchy before I had even completed researching Philosophy. In fact, I continued to find huts getting maps or gold fairly often all the way up to 630 AD when I popped 50 gold from my final hut. Philosophy could have been completed in 2310 BC, but in that turn I saw another AI border, so I delayed the completion of Philosophy until 2270 BC. At that time I had 6 AI contacts. I completed Philosophy, gifted them all up, and 2 got each first tier MA tech. I wasn’t sure exactly what the interturn order was so I bought those techs before choosing Republic. I had to pay Literature, 229 gold and 17 gpt for Engineering, but then the others were no problem, and I got all of my gold and 14 of my gpt back.

Middle Ages entered in 2270 BC. I got Invention as my free scientific tech, chose Republic as my free Philosophy tech and revolted for only 2 turns of anarchy. As of 2150 BC, I was in Republic, in the Middle Ages, and already through Invention. The only problem? I had a grand total of 5 towns and 14 citizens. My advisor told me that at maximum science (90% with 10% luxuries) I could complete Theology in a mere 31 turns (of course, I would run out of gold after just 10 turns).



I decided just to turn off research for close to 1000 years. The rationale was that it would be better for my Treasury in total to keep research off until I had some libraries built. But then I figured I was better off building settlers and workers instead of libraries so my research would stay off for a long time.

I disbanded 5 of my 6 scouts to keep unit costs under control. I only kept the one that was closest to where I expected Sumeria to be – but they weren’t there. My scout never did find them – I finally located them with a boat just before the end of the Middle Ages.

I also decided to try for some war happiness. In a previous attempt, I built embassies everywhere to try to tie some alliances to peace treaties – unfortunately, after building all the embassies, I found that none of the AI even knew each other yet so my gold was just wasted. This game, I tried a slightly different approach. I made demands from all AI (except Persia who was too close) until they were furious. As a side note, I picked up 1 gpt from the Byzantines and a few handfuls of gold from Germany before they started refusing :lol:. With furious, most aggressive AI, I hoped I could count on a declaration or two especially since I didn’t have a single military unit.

The Ottomans were the first to take the bait when they demanded Literature in 1400 BC and declared following my refusal. At that point, I built embassies in the capitals of the 3 tribes nearest to the Ottomans – Greece, Korea, and Persia. Only Greece knew the Ottomans so I signed an alliance against the Ottomans tied to peace with Greece. The Greeks would break this arrangement in 1025 BC and give me my second dose of war happiness. Neither war saw a lot of action, but the Ottomans almost caught me napping in 1125 BC:



That dangerous warrior was approaching, and I still didn’t have a single military unit. I had to rush a regular longbow in Novosibirsk to fight bravely against the invader. He won after being redlined – he had a few more battles against stragglers, but he never came close to dying again. I did find this rather amusing:



Back on the research front, I spent the first 20 turns of no research building almost exclusively workers and settlers. After that, I spent 7 turns building libraries and aqueducts with some being at least partially cash-rushed by the gold I had accumulated at 0% research. In 1325 BC, I actually began Middle Ages research. At that point, I had 4 cities, 12 towns, 70 citizens, 7 libraries, and 23 workers. My advisors assured me that now we could research Theology in only 6 turns at 226 bpt. I actually managed to get Theology down to 5 turns before it completed. For a while, it appeared that Theology would be the final tech that took me more than 4 turns, but it didn’t quite end up that way although I did all remaining Middle Age techs in 4 turns each – I completed Education after Theology, then just went in terms of increasing cost – Gunpowder and Banking before Astronomy etc.

By 1000 BC, I had 16 towns/cities, 118 citizens, 24 workers, 6 slaves, 1 scout, and 1 longbow.



Other Middle Age notes:

975 BC – completed the Colossus by hand.

925 BC – my military increased to 3 longbows making me strong compared to the Byzantines and average compared to everyone else except the Ottomans. I also ran negative gpt (after double-checking to make sure I was not giving anyone gpt!) losing a barracks. I think that’s the first time I ever used that “strategy”. It came up once or twice more this game – very handy!

850 BC – Forbidden Palace completes.

710 BC – finally can trade for furs with Persia after my workers connected them.




Luxuries go down to 0% for the first time this game (2 war happiness @3 citizens each + 2 native luxuries + trade for 1 luxury + 3 freebies on warlord = content at size 12) and would stay there except for a brief hiccup in the Industrial Age.

650 BC – got my second (and last) SGL for Physics. I had already building Copernicus’ and had a prebuild for Newton’s, and I was already at 4-turn research, so I didn’t see a need to rush one of them and waste the shields already accumulated, so he sat around for a while. I figured I would use him for whatever large wonder I screwed up the prebuild on (Hoover, Theory of Evolution, or Internet), but my prebuilds were solid this game. I eventually used him on SETI which I probably just wouldn’t have build without an SGL.

550 BC – complete Copernicus’ Observatory

410 BC – Complete the final Middle Age tech and enter the Industrial Age.



Upon entering the Industrial Age, I only gifted the 5 tribes I was at peace with. Germany and Persia got Nationalism, Korea was the only one to get Steam Power, Byzantines got Medicine, and Sumeria got Engineering (and then Medicine). I traded for Medicine from Sumeria giving up only Republic, Monarchy, and Literature with no gold, but Steam Power cost me 1197 gold and 142 gpt. It would have been much cheaper if I had gifted Ottomans and Greece up, and one of them got Steam, but I decided I needed my reputation still, and I could not give up the war happiness.

My free Industrial Age tech was Sanitation – certainly not what I’d hoped for, but it wasn’t as bad as Nationalism or Ironclads. Most of my cities only had 12 tiles available to work, but there were some coastal cities that could grow beyond that. Even interior cities could grow even if they only had 12 tiles to work – the extra gold in the city center and the extra scientists were still worthwhile. There is no way I would have researched Sanitation on my own, but as long as I had it, I built several hospitals which undoubtedly helped my research.

To grow bigger, I needed more war happiness so I built embassies everywhere to find out who had what contacts. Most AI by now knew 1-2 other tribes. I declared on the Byzantines and signed alliance/peace with Korea. Both Sumeria and Germany knew the Greeks so I signed peace/alliances with them.

I had timed Newton’s to complete the turn after I entered the Industrial Age to kick off my Golden Age. With GA research, I headed straight to the critical techs of Electricity and Replaceable Parts in 4 turns each. In 190 BC, I got careless – the Ottomans recaptured a city I had taken from them, and had a spear outside another undefended city of mine with none of my units nearby. I was forced to sign peace with them since I was going to lose my war happiness anyway – I picked up 2 towns in the peace agreement. 20 turns later I would redeclare and actually start taking significant numbers of towns.

Luxuries had to go back to 10%, but fortunately I was able to complete the cheap Scientific Method in 4 turns still. By 150 BC, the Sumerians had declared war so luxuries could be turned off again for the remainder of the game.

I made what may have been an error in judgment in 90 BC after completing Industrialization – I opted to try for Atomic Theory next. I was still in my Golden Age, so I wanted the most expensive Industrial Age tech out of the way. My advisor said it would take 5 turns, but I assumed that I could add workers, or hire some more scientists, or do something to get it down to 4 turns before it completed. I didn’t even come close :blush:. Atomic Theory was the first and only tech after Theology to take more than 4 turns. During the cheaper techs, I managed to cash rush a decent number of settlers to ICS some nearby land. Other significant Industrial Age dates:

330 AD – complete Hoover Dam.
410 AD – complete Motorized Transportation, and I finally have a unit stronger than a horseman that can move 2 per turn.
450 AD – complete Flight and enter the Modern Age.



The Modern Age went perfectly. I no longer cared about my reputation so I signed peace with everyone (picking up a couple more cities) and gifted them all up – 3 Rocketry, 2 Fission, and 1 each of Computers and Ecology :). I successfully purchased all 4 paying gpt if necessary and then redeclared on my war happiness tribes to get my happiness (and gpt) back. My free tech was Space Flight. The Theory of Evolution completed the same turn to provide Miniaturization and Superconductor. The Internet completed the following turn, and I used my SGL to rush SETI.

Research was an easy 4 turns per tech through the remainder of the Modern Age. I continually warred against my neighbors just because I could (and I figured I might as well play it safe and continue to add specialist farms). I am pleased to report that my tanks did not suffer a single fatality against AI spearmen (and there were a LOT of those battles).

The space ship was launched in 660 AD.

 
:eek:

Fantastic date, accumulating gold whilst building libraries really seems to have paid off here. What factors do you consider as to when to start researching again?

I think I will complete my current game which I am on course for entering modern times in 580ad then get back to the drawing board, not expecting to beat this date but plenty of scope to learn and improve on my current attempt.
 
Thanks :).

Fantastic date, accumulating gold whilst building libraries really seems to have paid off here. What factors do you consider as to when to start researching again?

I think the main thing was that I wanted my capital and first ring cities to be at least size 7 to start research. That meant I needed enough secondary cities with enough population and terrain improvements that I could build settlers and workers from them at a reasonable pace so I could let my core grow. Once I had a few non-core cities at +5 fpt and reasonable shields, I decided it was time to get moving.

I think the main "strategy" of my game was waiting until I got a map with both a free settler and the Pyramids - it's going to be almost impossible for any game without those to compete with a game that has that kind of start.
 
Another fantastic game, Chamnix! That's going to be tough to beat. Kudos to Aigburth as well, I would like to see a write-up of that game, too.

Do you think an SGL at Myst, around 2900BC is too late? I've played a lot of maps and had no luck with the CB SGL so far.

The idea of using war happiness is brilliant and I'll certainly be adding that to my bag of tricks in these games. I'm not too sure about disbanding the scouts, though. They cost 2gpt each but each should pop 50 gold from huts regularly in the MA on those settings.

Also, you should go ahead and take Republic as your free tech after philosophy before hitting the big picture. The ai will always trade either monotheism or engineering straight up for Republic and then give up feudalism for Republic and the other first-tier tech. I've had this work even when I only had three contacts. No need to ever pay gpt for the first-tier techs.
 
Do you think an SGL at Myst, around 2900BC is too late? I've played a lot of maps and had no luck with the CB SGL so far.

No, I don't think so. Realistically that is probably about when you can normally expect to get Masonry even if you get a Ceremonial Burial SGL.

I'm not too sure about disbanding the scouts, though. They cost 2gpt each but each should pop 50 gold from huts regularly in the MA on those settings.

I think you are right about that - I didn't realize there would be that much gold from huts available throughout the game.

Also, you should go ahead and take Republic as your free tech after philosophy before hitting the big picture. The ai will always trade either monotheism or engineering straight up for Republic and then give up feudalism for Republic and the other first-tier tech. I've had this work even when I only had three contacts. No need to ever pay gpt for the first-tier techs.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't positive, and I had such a lucky Ancient Age I didn't want to take any chances.
 
I've just dicovered another neat trick using Chamnix' settings. The ai is giving me towns just by asking for them! I've never seen them do this. Even though I had no military at the start of the MA I got seven towns from six different ai. The Ottomans handed me both of their towns leaving them with a capital. As trash towns they can be set to wealth running a scientist. These seven towns reduced my unit support by 7 gpt added another 7 gpt and 28bt at 100% science. With scouts also popping gold from huts, I've managed to run maximum science during the entire MA reaching the IA in 50AD without an SGL for an early Pyramids.

I got three doses of war happiness as well. Size 12 cities with only two luxuries and 0% lux-slider is wonderful to see.:)

Now, where did I put that CB SGL?....
 
I've managed to demand towns before, but only when I had an armed presence close to the towns. I hadn't thought of trying it in games like this though, excellent idea!
 
AutomatedTeller said:
how did you do that? asking for them for what.. peace?

I was just demanding things from them to make them furious and was surprised when they actually gave me a town. I don't know if its related to the settings or what. Perhaps the towns they gave were new and had no defenders? I had zero military so it wasn't due to strength.

I've just tried it again in another game and got four towns. Once, one of the towns was threatened by an ai I had declared on and I gifted it back to its original owner who I had an ma with for peace. The town was destroyed and peace was soon declared giving me war happiness. Some towns I've got aren't even fully corrupt. It seems to be a very handy trick.
 
I made a stupid mistake on the Industrial to Modern age change, I managed to buy all 4 starting techs with ToE due to complete, unfortunately I forgot to pick a modern age tech to research so the first tech I got from ToE was the default nationalism :hammer2:

Is a reload allowed here?
 
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